Anthony, I wrote some things in my previous post attached below that I want to correct. I must have got carried away with your analogy and wanted to extend it to say what I wanted to say. I like to do that, but in this case I’ve failed and probably definitely did not say what I should have said. I’ll say that now:
Zen experience is NOT like ‘a bystander viewing a movie’. I’ve heard such things before about a ‘watcher’ or a bodiless ‘seer’ hovering above witnessing things. That is a perspective or experience I have had, and have had while meditation (zazen), BUT IT IS MAYA (illusion) and is not a fundamental part of zen practice as I know some claim. Zen experience is direct and immediate. No watcher, Just THIS! What I wanted to say below was that maya (Illusions) are very seductive and you can get sucked into them, and if you’re not well-anchored in zen or do not return to practicing zazen you can become attached to them. Emotions are LIKE this, but they are NOT maya (illusions) in the sense that I usually use the term ‘maya’. They are, I assume, naturally occurring reactions of your physical body to your perceptions, perceptions which themselves may be illusory. The perceptions might be maya, but the emotions are not. When you’re happy, the whole universe is nothing but happiness. There is no ‘watcher’, and there is no separation between ‘you’ and the happiness. All is one. Happiness is All. When you’re sad, the whole universe is nothing but sadness as is expressed in this excellent poem by W.H. Auden entitled FUNERAL BLUES: Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone, Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone, Silence the pianos and with muffled drum, Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come. Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead, Scribbling on the sky the message He is Dead. Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves, Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves. He was my North, my South, my East and West, My working week and my Sunday rest, My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song; I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong. The stars are not wanted now; put out every one, Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun, Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods; For nothing now can ever come to any good. That is how emotions such as sadness are experienced in zen practice…Bill! From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka? Anthony, ‘Disagreeing’ in not an emotion. If I’d said, ‘Your statement makes me MAD! (or sad, or disappointed, or happy, etc…) then that would be a sign of emotion. Treating emotions ‘like a bystander viewing a movie’ is okay with me. That doesn’t mean you don’t get caught up in the movie from time to time. That just means when you leave the theater you don’t think what you’ve just seen is real. So I guess you could say I might ‘hug’ emotions from time to time; but I don’t take them home with me nor try to ‘go all the way’ with them. …Bill! From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka? Bill, It is premature and 'emotional' for you to disagree. If you don't 'hug' emotions, you are not harmed. Some not only hug them, they make love with them, here comes the harm. I am not saying zen discourages emotions, it treats them like a bystander viewing a movie. Doesn't this conform to your 'system'? Anthony --- On Fri, 6/8/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka? To: [email protected] Date: Friday, 6 August, 2010, 6:49 PM Anthony, I disagree. What is the harm if you don’t ‘hug’ them (form an attachment to them)? Where have you heard, or what have you read that makes you think zen discourages emotions? …Bill! From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:49 AM To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka? Bill, I think zen views emotions arising just like watching a movie as a bystander. You don't hug them. Still, they are harmful. Otherwise, the zen way would be different. Anthony --- On Thu, 5/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org> wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org> Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka? To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 9:18 AM Anthony, I don’t know what Buddhism’s view is vis-à-vis emotions, but in my zen practice emotions arise all the time. I don’t try to ‘do away’ with them. I accept them. …Bill! From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:35 AM To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka? Mayka, I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality. Anthony --- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez <flordel...@btintern et.com> wrote: From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btintern et.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka? To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you. How very kind of you both to ask for me. Not often this happens to me in groups. Hardly ever anyone miss me!. . I've been away in Spain most of July. I have some access to internet but not much and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I wasn't feeling much talkative. I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK because I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as possible. By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, don't give a dam!. They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno for themselves!. Thank you Mayka --- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo. com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo. com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka? To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01 Mike, Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think about. Yes, I miss Mayka too. Anthony --- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo. co.uk> wrote: From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo. co.uk> Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka? To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM Mayka, I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. Everything ok? Mike __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5341 (20100804) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5341 (20100804) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5346 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5346 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5346 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset. com <http://www.eset.com/> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5348 (20100806) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
