Bill,
 
Why do you have to respond to perceptions with emotions? You could do it with 
equanimity. I know it is difficult (sometimes I bang at my desk), but can we 
treat it as one of the objectives of zen?
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 8/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 8 August, 2010, 8:18 AM


  





Anthony,
 
I do indeed sometimes succumb to illusions, but I did not emphasize the items 
highlighted in red below.  However, maybe I should have because that was an 
important distinction made in the post – that PERCEPTIONS (experiences that 
have been post-processed by the rational mind) might be (I should have said 
‘are probably’) maya, but emotions are not maya – they are real.
 
…Bill!
 


From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf 
Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 4:28 AM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
 
  








Bill,

 

I am led to believe, based on your highlighted words that something in you 
succumbs to Maya.

 

Anthony

--- On Sat, 7/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Saturday, 7 August, 2010, 6:04 PM

  



Anthony,
I wrote some things in my previous post attached below that I want to correct.  
I must have got carried away with your analogy and wanted to extend it to say 
what I wanted to say.  I like to do that, but in this case I’ve failed and 
probably definitely did not say what I should have said.  I’ll say that now:
Zen experience is NOT like ‘a bystander viewing a movie’.  I’ve heard such 
things before about a ‘watcher’ or a bodiless ‘seer’ hovering above witnessing 
things.  That is a perspective or experience I have had, and have had while 
meditation (zazen), BUT IT IS MAYA (illusion) and is not a fundamental part of 
zen practice as I know some claim.  Zen experience is direct and immediate.  No 
watcher, Just THIS!
What I wanted to say below was that maya (Illusions) are very seductive and you 
can get sucked into them, and if you’re not well-anchored in zen or do not 
return to practicing zazen you can become attached to them.  Emotions are LIKE 
this, but they are NOT maya (illusions) in the sense that I usually use the 
term ‘maya’.  They are, I assume, naturally occurring reactions of your 
physical body to your perceptions, perceptions which themselves may be 
illusory.  The perceptions might be maya, but the emotions are not.
When you’re happy, the whole universe is nothing but happiness.  There is no 
‘watcher’, and there is no separation between ‘you’ and the happiness.  All is 
one.  Happiness is All.  When you’re sad, the whole universe is nothing but 
sadness as is expressed in this excellent poem by W.H. Auden entitled FUNERAL 
BLUES: 
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone, 
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone, 
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum, 
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come. 
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead, 
Scribbling on the sky the message He is Dead. 
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves, 
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves. 
He was my North, my South, my East and West, 
My working week and my Sunday rest, 
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song; 
I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong. 
The stars are not wanted now; put out every one, 
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun, 
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods; 
For nothing now can ever come to any good. 
That is how emotions such as sadness are experienced in zen practice…Bill! 
  



From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf 
Of billsm...@hhs1963. org
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:39 AM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
  
  




Anthony,
 
‘Disagreeing’ in not an emotion.  If I’d said, ‘Your statement makes me MAD!  
(or sad, or disappointed, or happy, etc…) then that would be a sign of emotion.
 
Treating emotions ‘like a bystander viewing a movie’ is okay with me.  That 
doesn’t mean you don’t get caught up in the movie from time to time.  That just 
means when you leave the theater you don’t think what you’ve just seen is real. 
  
So I guess you could say I might ‘hug’ emotions from time to time; but I don’t 
take them home with me nor try to ‘go all the way’ with them. 
  
…Bill! 
  
  
  



From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf 
Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 7:23 AM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
  
  





Bill,

 

It is premature and 'emotional' for you to disagree. If you don't 'hug' 
emotions, you are not harmed. Some not only hug them, they make love with them, 
here comes the harm. I am not saying zen discourages emotions, it treats them 
like a bystander viewing a movie. Doesn't this conform to your 'system'?

 

Anthony

--- On Fri, 6/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Friday, 6 August, 2010, 6:49 PM 

  



Anthony,
 
I disagree.  What is the harm if you don’t ‘hug’ them (form an attachment to 
them)?  Where have you heard, or what have you read that makes you think zen 
discourages emotions? 
  
…Bill! 
  


From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf 
Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 4:49 AM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
  
  





Bill,

 

I think zen views emotions arising just like watching a movie as a bystander. 
You don't hug them. Still, they are harmful. Otherwise, the zen way would be 
different.

 

Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org> wrote:


From: billsm...@hhs1963. org <billsm...@hhs1963. org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 9:18 AM 

  



Anthony,
  
I don’t know what Buddhism’s view is vis-à-vis emotions, but in my zen practice 
emotions arise all the time.  I don’t try to ‘do away’ with them.  I accept 
them. 
  
…Bill! 
  



From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf 
Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:35 AM
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
  
  





Mayka,

 

I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.

 

Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez <flordel...@btintern et.com> wrote:


From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btintern et.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM 

  





Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as 
possible.    By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do 
care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, 
don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno 
for themselves!.

 

Thank you 

Mayka

 


--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo. com.sg> wrote:


From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo. com.sg>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01 

  





Mike,

 

Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.

 

Yes, I miss Mayka too.

 

Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:


From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo. co.uk>
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM 

  





Mayka,

 

I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?

 

Mike

 


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