Anthony,

Criticism from people within religion is not the same as criticism from people 
outside religion. A belief in faith allows (some) people to indoctrinate 
children in the most evil and despicable ways (take a look at the documentary 
'Jesus Camp'). If I was to do the same thing in the name of Marxism I would be 
arrested for child abuse. You'd have to see the documentary to understand my 
point.

Mike




________________________________
From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 6 October, 2010 9:14:39
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

  
Mike,

I don't see your point. For me, a 'free pass' means you are exempt from 
something, such as criticism. I was thinking that you might be afraid of 
criticizing religion for fear of the hostile environment. Now I was shocked 
that 
you said something so strongly regarding Yehwah. It occurred to me that that is 
useful for you to act in Japan. They like what you say about the god. So good 
luck with your conversion of the Japanese to the glory of God.

Anthony

--- On Tue, 5/10/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
church.
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 10:24 PM
>
>
>  
>Anthony,
>
>A couple of points. One religion criticising another religion is not the point 
>I'm making about religion having a free pass. Take politics, for example. In 
>the 
>last presidential debate 4 candidates put up their hands to swear that they 
>didn't believe in evolution. Was there a gasp of disbelief from the 
>questioner/audience? Laughter? A roll of the eyes? Nothing. Not even a follow 
>up 
>question. And these people potentially could have their finger on the button. 
>Now imaine if they said they believed in UFOs or Zeus or a flat earth etc. Now 
>that's what I call a free pass. 
>
>
>Mike
> 
>Ps, I like Don Quixote. Probably the best example of a man of Zen in 
literature.
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg>
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 7:43:43
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
church.
>
>  
>Mike,
>
>I don't see the 'free pass'. You find Islam criticising Christianity, and vice 
>versa, and Christianity reviling Buddhism and vice versa. Many other 
>instances. 
>The reason you are afraid to say something against Christianity is because you 
>live in a strong Christain influenced environment. Once you say something, you 
>will see a lot of Don Quixotes rushing toward you.
>
>Anthony
>
>--- On Mon, 4/10/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
>church.
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Date: Monday, 4 October, 2010, 11:38 PM
>>
>>
>>  
>>Mayka,
>>
>>It goes waaaaaaaaay beyond mere "disappontment" in any established religious 
>>institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a "free pass" from 
>>criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment; 
>>goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable 
>>behaviours 
>>etc. What is it about religion that can claim "I'm offended" as a valid 
>>argument 
>>against scrutiny and even ridicule? If I said the world was flat you'd 
>>probably 
>>think I was mentally sick. But deny evolution (despite the overwhelming 
>>scientific eveidence) and that's ok because I claim to have 'faith' in a 
>>bronze-age myth. And I'm not even going to begin with the institutionalised 
>>cover-up of child rape by the Catholic church..
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com>
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Mon, 4 October, 2010 22:51:51
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
>church.
>>
>>  
>>Hi Mike and Everyone!
>> 
>>If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious 
>>institution 
>>whether that dissapointment was in Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Zen 
>>Buddhist, etc, etc institutions:  and  afterwards acts as a destructor 
>>towards 
>>the institution from which dissapointment took place, then it doesn't sound a 
>>very wise way of doing towards oneself.  I certainly include myself in this 
>>unwise way of doing as I've recently experienced a great dissapointment in 
>>the 
>>TNH institutions which lead me to criticism of them. Though never 
>>as irrespetuos 
>>or destructive as many atheists show themselves ugly behaviour in front of 
>>Christianity.  This harmful way of doing doesn't affect the instituions 
>>established but just to the ones who carries away such violent shows. 
>> 
>> When I look deeply into myself, I realice that it was me all the way alone 
>>who 
>>built up a pedestal to that institution.  It was me who caused herself the 
>>dissapointment for building a pedestal of "holiness, peace....to the 
>>institution".  They weren't the ones!!!. Having seeing this within myself I 
>>am 
>>now grateful having found that institution from which I was introduced in the 
>>walk of zen buddhism.
>> 
>>  I was ever dissapointed in any Christian institutions because I never built 
>>up 
>>a pedestal to the instituion!.  And so my experience was always healthy and 
>>positive.  It was positive because I never put that instituion in a 
>>pedestal.  I 
>>saw it for what it was.  And so I could get all the benefit from it and never 
>>the dissapointment and the anger and frustation that comes with it.
>> 
>>Mayka
>>
>>
>>--- On Sun, 3/10/10, mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>From: mike brown <uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your 
>>church.
>>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>>Date: Sunday, 3 October, 2010, 11:33
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>Kristy,
>>>
>>>You wrote:  "If you have faith, there is a whole sphere they are ignorant 
>>>about."  
>>>
>>>
>>>However, this isn't really the whole story. Many atheists were once 
>>>believers 
>>>who have seen thru 'faith' and have rejected it for what it is. Moreover, I 
>>>am 
>>>ignorant of what it is to be a neo-nazis, but have no trouble rejecting 
>>>their 
>>>beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>> 
>> 
>
> 




      

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