Hello Bill,

Very seldom reading "adamantly disagree" in your post. May I say that I "adamantly support" your statement.

To be Buddha is reaching "absolute awareness" and "absolute equality". Or 『正等,正覺』 in Chinese。Every first grader who came to a Buddhist school knows this.

My Teacher often said, "we may have different height, but we are all standing on level ground."

He bows back, when we bow to him. I have learned that he leads through actions and not words.

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can

On 11/17/2010 8:23 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:

Ed and Kristy,

First of all I do want to echo Kristy’s first point which she phrased as a question. I too would much rather ED (or anyone who posts) tell us your opinion on something. Second best (but still acceptable) is for you to first express your opinion and then back it up with a reference to someone else. I think the worst case is when you just post a URL to someone else’s opinion. You may think this is a way to pass information in a neutral manner, but it is second-hand information, and information on which there can be no interactive discussion with the originator of the opinion.

Usually I don’t even go to links if there it is not there to support something else in the post; but I did go to this one and looked at about the first 2 minutes of the video.

So secondly I must adamantly disagree with Genpo on the dynamics of a zen teacher-student relationship. He described it as a necessarily hierarchical relationship: the teacher (roshi) higher than the student. He used an example a water system were the Dharma was the water, the roshi was the faucet and the student was an empty cup. The dynamics of the relationship were that the Dharma necessarily flowed through the teacher to the student. This is absolutely incorrect.

The dynamics and relationships are not hierarchical, they are horizontal or parallel. Using the water system analogy, BOTH the teacher and the student comprise the complete water system. The are both the water source, the pipes and the faucet. Presumably the teacher has experience in turning on the faucet and accessing the water, and the student does not. The teacher can only demonstrate how he/she accesses the water and make some suggestions. The student must learn how to turn on the faucet for himself.

The point is that Dharma does not flow THROUGH the teacher to the student. If that’s the relationship Genpo believes is necessary and that he demands, then he has strayed very far from the teachings of Maezumi Roshi.

I will direct you to a link which will fully support my position on this. To access the link you only need to sit quietly and count your breathes.


From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Kristy McClain
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 4:06 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen


So do you have a comment about this?

To amplify my comment to Bill. When I watched Genpo say this to a student, I do not believe he was saying this in such a way as to confront the student with his own reality, a.k.a. "tough love". Gempo was visably irritated, and his body language, tone of voice and entire behavior indicated that he, himself, had simply lost control. As for Andrew Cohen, frankly-- I cannot understand this guy. He can talk non-stop for hours. My ears hurt when starts rambling on and on with what I perceive as psycho-spiritual-intelli-babble. Hailed as brilliant, I cannot understand most of what he says.

I do understand the point of this video, but I can't see Jack Kornfield, TNH, Cheryl Hubbard and so on, behaving this way. But perhaps it is also telling to note that this is a teaching style I avoided as not right for me.


--- On Wed, 11/17/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>>
Subject: [Zen] The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 1:21 PM

The Teacher-Student Relationship: Genpo Roshi & Andrew Cohen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VsnVFVF2Xs (8:44)

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