--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel <gunnar19632...@...> wrote:

> Is not this notion based upon the unfounded assumption that you are a subject 
> experiencing and object? 
> MEL: Unfounded assumption? I don't understand. Please elaborate. The use of  
> one's daily activities may help

  Hi Mel. Subject and object are conceptual constructs that are inter-dependant 
and relative to one another. It is meaningless to say that some object exists 
if it is not ever perceived. 'Exists' just means 'perceived'. By the same 
token, if there were no objects of perception, including mental objects such as 
thoughts, then subjective awareness could not be aware of itself, could not be 
aware that it existed as such. The subjective ego-self is just a conceptual 
boundary line that does not really exist as such. Observe this curved line: ( . 
Is this curved line concave or convex? It is both and neither. The Flower 
Garland Sutra says that everything exists as a reflection of everything else. 
In order to see ourselves as subjective ego-selves we must draw boundary lines 
that do not actually exist. All of this is just conceptualization and, as such, 
is not Zen, just Idealistic Buddhist philosophy (Yogacara, Vijnanavada, 
Cittamatra). Zen wants to capture life as it actually happens. In the actual 
moment of any experience, such as hearing a bell ring, there is no conceptual 
division between subject and object.
Only later (a split-second) do we conceptualize about our memory of the 
experience and thereby divide Just This into subject and object.
In the moment of experience, before deciding whether the curved line is concave 
or convex by positioning a subject on one side and an object on the other, we 
are the totality of the experience. In the case of the ringing bell, we ARE the 
ringing. A split-second later, we conceptualize a subject that experiences an 
object, and then decide whether we like the object or dislike it. Anyone who 
does zazen long enough realizes that consciousness is discontinuous, that there 
are momentary gaps. This arises in consciousness and then that.
As the spotlight of attention rests here and there the skanda of samjna or 
perceptual recognition arises to reinforce the feeling of being an ego-self in 
relation to an object of perception. But if one pays very close attention to 
the gaps in between perceptual recognitions, one will rest in the awareness of 
no-self, before the boundary lines are drawn. In those moments we experience 
life as it really is, before we cut Just This up into fragmented pieces and 
decide which pieces are agreeable and which are not. These momentary gaps can 
be seen at all times. Between one movement and the next. Between one thought 
and the next. Between one breath and the next. 
You must see this for yourself, and not just think about it. IMO.
Namo Amitabha!
"All Buddhas and all sentient beings are no different from the One Mind. In 
this One Mind there is neither arising nor ceasing, no name or form, no long or 
short, no large or small, and neither existence nor non-existence. it 
transcends all limitations of name, word and relativity, and it is as boundless 
as the great Void. Giving rise to thought is erroneous, and any speculation 
about it with our ordinary faculties is inapplicable, irrelevant and 
inaccurate. Only Mind is Buddha, and Buddhas and sentient beings are not 
different. All sentient beings grasp form and search outside themselves. Using 
Buddha to seek Buddha, they thus use mind to seek Mind. Practicing in this 
manner even until the end of the kalpa, they cannot attain the fruit. However, 
when thinking and discrimination suddenly halt, the Buddhas appear." -Huang Po 


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