Yes, it appears that in zazen, breath-type meditations are usually used as required, to stabilize the mind prior to shikantaza. Right Concentration and Right Mindfulness are the seventh and eight steps on the Noble Eightfold path. I can accept that Shikantaza is on the Right Mindfulness path. It is not clear to me whether the various meditations on the breath and other things, including the various Vipassana type meditations, are of the Right Concentration type or the Right Mindfulness type or a mix of the two. I can believe that Right Mindfulness meditation can lead to realization of Buddha Nature. I am not certain whether the same is true of concentration type meditations or mixed type meditations, although I tend to believe that in the Theravada teachings, the oldest Buddhist sources available, the answer is 'Yes'. Bill, JMJM, Mayka, Joriki, Anthony and All, your views on these matters are kindly requested. Thanks, ED 1. Right View <#Right_View> Wisdom 2. Right Intention <#Right_Intention> 3. Right Speech <#Right_Speech> Ethical Conduct 4. Right Action <#Right_Action> 5. Right Livelihood <#Right_Livelihood> 6. Right Effort <#Right_Effort> Mental Development 7. Right Mindfulness <#Right_Mindfulness> 8. Right Concentration <#Right_Concentration> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Ed, > > Yes. Counting or following the breath is not shikantaza. These are techniques that are sometimes used to get you to shikantaza. > > ...Bill! > > Bill - > > > > Counting breaths is not Shikantaza. Yes? > > > > Following the breath without counting is not Shikantaza. Yes? > > > > Thanks, > > > > - ED > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Sit. Sit zazen, which for me implies shikantaza - clear mind.