Joe, Thanks for your explanation. I understand now more what you are saying.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], "maitreya003" <joultimo@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Observer may imply duality, unless the observer is free from the construct of > duality, meaning a self and other may appear to awareness without falling > into believing things exist in the way to which they appear, as real. Heres > an example of the application of what I mean: When a being of compassion > gives help to another being while maintaing the non reality of both their > self the other and the gift. My point being that it is not the act of > observing that is not zen, but the act of observing a separate self and > other. This is how a being can remain in zen while functioning in the world. > The rest of what I wrote, that I did not express in a way you could > understand, had to do with the application of the concept above. There is a > focus on experiencing zen, which is valid, yet the growth of the mind that > appears to the world of beings who suffer is negated. Most express that > goodness comes out by default as you connect to pure awareness. This maybe > true, but it is also true that one could grow the mind that functions in the > world for others, while maintaing zen. If this is true, why would this not > be the thing to do? If someone gave you a recipe that cured the world of any > illness would it be not zen to make it for others? Doesnt it make a > difference, not to the free mind who doesn't see self other and medicine, but > to those who receive the medicine. > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > I respectfully disagree. > > > > The very word 'observer' implies duality. There is someone or something > > observing, and someone or something that is the object of the observation. > > > > Perhaps when you say 'observe' you mean the same thing that I mean when I > > say 'aware'. Awareness does not imply duality - at least in the Bill! > > lexicon. > > > > It's okay when we disagree about things, especially about words and their > > meaning; but it is important at least to me that we resolve the terms > > enough to be able to communicate well. > > > > I didn't understand the rest of your comments about Buddha, different > > states, advice and compassion. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "maitreya003" <joultimo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > Observed object and observer is not duality. Observer and object can > > > exist free from duality. This is how a buddha can forever be in the > > > world while being in the state that most of the high beings on the site > > > must negate the world to maintain. Which also explains why most advice > > > and the state of being through which that advice arises lacks compassion. > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I would think that any comparison of Vulcans and zen is 'way off'. > > > > > > > > To answer your question, anything that involves observing does not > > > > sound like zen to me. In the zen I practice there are no dualities > > > > such as observer/observed (subject/object)...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Dave P" <wookielifeday@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This is another strange question, but I've been watching a lot of > > > > > Star Trek, and there's frequent mentioning of how the Vulcans are not > > > > > actually unemotional, but simply observe their emotions and not let > > > > > them control their actions. Does this sound Zen to anyone here, or am > > > > > I way off.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
