Thanks again, ED! That was exactly the kind of discourse I was looking for - relative to my situation and delivered by someone who clearly walks the talk.Thru my own research on this subject (jhanas within Buddhism- I've dropped the kundalini paradigm), I've been able to discern that jhanas are just phenomena of the mind brought about by conditions created by intense concentration in meditation. They can used a number of ways eg, use them to calm and pinpoint the mind for focused mindfulness; enjoy them for a while but not get attached to them; use them for insightfulness (who is this haapenng to? Why are they so fascinating? Notice their impermance etc); recognise that they are the first stage of the 4 jhanas Buddha talked about; or simply ignore them. Personally, I've found it (jhana) to be distracting (it occurs now quite frequently after about 15 minutes of zazen) because I've begun to anticipate it at the beginning of the session, so I've begun to meditate in the park - which seems to be working!
Mike ________________________________ From: ED <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 13 April, 2011 23:23:51 Subject: [Zen] Re: Does Zen contain spirituality? Mike and Bill, This guy's three short talks appear to be very relevant to 'explaining' and 'dealing with' the sort of experiences you two describe in your messages below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2pplFsxs7c Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMirridSXg&feature=related Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSRMlvmuHCY&feature=related Part 3 --ED --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > Yes, I've read about that 'honey'-like experience a few times recently. It >seems > > that when the mind has been concentrated strenously (eg, working on a koan) >then > > that allows the 5 senses to be suspended and the mind to become pure. For > some > this can be visualised (although not visualised in anyway known previously) > as >a > > light, golden light, a blue pearl or just a feeling of bliss and with no > 'visuals'. If the practioner can still be mindful of not clinging to this >state, > > then the next stage is jhana. I think you'll find what you described is > called > 'nimitta' in Buddhist terminology. > > Mike > Mike, > > That was quite an experience! Thanks for sharing it with us. > > I haven't had many visual sensations when sitting, and none certainly as > vivid > as the one you have described. The most intense one I had was just one day > prior to my kensho while working on the Mu koan. I had just left dokusan > (private interview) with the roshi and been 'rung out' (dismissed with the >bell) > > again while trying to satisfy his demand to 'Bring me Mu!'. It was a very > active and loud interview and I left with a lot of disapointment. > > The head monk followed me out of the dokusan room and spoke with me privately >in > > the hallway. He told me I was very close but needed to take a 'break' for a > while. He advised me to just sit (clear mind) for one or 2 sitting sessions > (about 40 minutes long) too let everything just settle down. (At that time I > couldn't really sit 'clear mind' and he knew that, but I could approach that > state and calm myself down. I proceeded to do that and in the second session > I > had a visualization/hallucination that I and the entire zendo (sitting room) >and > > everyone in it was suspended in a thick, viscuous golden light - I could >desribe > > it as being like honey. It was very beautiful and soothing and I sat clear > through the next kinhin (walking meditation) interval (10 minutes) and clear > through the next sitting session (40 minutes). > > I couldn't wait to get back into dokusan with the roshi to tell him about > this, > > but when I did and described it he just smiled and told me that was maya > (illusion), then once again sternly demanded "Bring me MU!" and promptly rang > the bell signalling the end of the interview. > > I experienced kensho the next morning and was finally able to 'bring him Mu'. > The roshi, head monk and I all cried for about 5 minutes before I was ushered > out the room by the head monk and back to the zendo - no bell this time. > > That was my most memorable experience of visualizations. > > ...Bill! > --- In [email protected], mike brown uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > Actually, it's difficult to find a place where to begin. If you remember, I > > recently wrote about an experience that was responsible for me discovering >Zen. > > > > > Just to recap, I had a very lucid and long-lasting kensho followed by > > another > > > long-lasting period of intense bliss and kundalini type phenonema. Of > > course, >I > > > wasn't concerned with the latter experience so much and intuitively grasped >the > > > > > importance of the insight gained thru kensho (hence falling into Zen and > > not > > kundalini or mysticism etc). I've had a number of such experiences (both >kinds) > > > > > since, but this weekend was quite different altogether. The first day of > > the > > retreat was rather so-so as I couldn't quite get into the 'groove' and I > > was > > also missing my girlfriend quite acutely: being 'in the moment' was hell as >it > > > > made me even more aware of the separation (please don't anyone tell me what > > I > > > should or shouldn't do - I know full well what was happening). Anyway, from > > about midday until lights out, I was aware of a kind of 'fluttering' in my > >solar > > > > plexus area (which I put down to maybe being a mild emotional reaction to >being > > > > > separated from my girlfriend). The morning of the second day everything > >changed. > > > > I could sit very comfortably and found myself going into samadhi >effortlessly. > > > > The fluttering in the solar plexus had now taken on a yellowish-green > > colour >in > > > > > my mind's eye and seemed to be rotating. Then after about 6 or 7 hours > > meditating (remember that there are 11 hours of meditating a day on a >Vipassana > > > > > retreat) my heart stopped (as an actual fact, I don't know), my breathing > > was > > > suspended (I really thought for a split second I was going to die right > > there > > > on the cushion!) and an explosion of green and yellow filled my chest and >shot up > > > > my throat and exploded in a white firework that filled my head cavity. At > > the > > > same time my body/mind felt like it was vibrating like it was a struck > > gong. > >All pain and discomfort vanished (I'd been sitting motionless for almost an >hour > > > when this occured) and an intense bliss took over. > > > > > > Now, I've had many experiences on the cushion that could easily be put down >to > > > > visual/audial hallucinations from meditating, but this was quite different > > because I've never had much regard for things like chi and chakras before. > > After doing a little bit of research since I got home I've discovered that >the solar > > > plexus chakra is indeed symbolised as green and yellow and an irregular > > heart > > > rhythm is a precursor to its opening. Also, when it does open the event I >just > > > > described (travelling up the spine and 'flowering' in the head - or 'ajna' > > chakra) occurs. I've only discovered this information after the event. So, >what > > > to do about it? Part of me still has that 'just move on with it - it's just > >more > > > > makyo', but another part of me is thinking that it couldn't just be a > > coincidence that I had the exact same sensations described in kundalini > > literature. Well, if anyone's still reading this far, there you go. I'd > > love >to > > > > > hear some feedback about this (but please, I know about makyo and its > >pitfalls). > > > > Thanks. Mike
