ED,
>In "Zen-Mind Reflections" by Dr. James Austin, the absorbtions (jhana states)
>are said to comprise a stage one may encounter in one's practice, and which
>stage lies between the makyo ('awakenings') and kensho-statori
>(wisdom-insight)
>stages.
I haven't read this book so it's difficult to make any kind of comment.
However,
I've never seen mayko described as an 'awakening' nor kensho-satori as
'wisdom-insight' (Although the latter could be described that way, I'd prefer
to
describe it as seeing our True Nature before the mind throws its net of
intellectualising, labelling and conceptualising over it).
>As reported in the Theravada literature, the Buddha himself encountered these
>jhana states prior to his enlightenment, and prior to his demise - and
>very probably at other times too.
That's my understanding, too. He never stopped meditating even after his
Enlightenment and he entered the jhanas on his deathbed.
>The jhana states are not 'illusory' states, as they are the actual
>personal experiences (sensations, visions, bliss states, compassion states)
>of
>the the meditator - and they are all impermanent, as are all phenomena.
>
My take is that they are quite 'real' natural phenomena brought about by
intense
concentration during meditation. When entered, all concentration ceases and the
senses are completely overwhelmed for a time until one enters a state that is
highly focused again but in a very joyful, tranquil way. They are definitely
impermanent phenomena so in that sense they are illusory and one needs to be
careful not to become attached to them. I'd like to point out that
'illusionary'
(just like 'ego') is not a dirty word if one sees thru the illusion.
>The experiences in each of the eight jhana states has been been itemized in
>detail in the Theravada literature.
Surprisingly accurate and comprehensive, too!
>The advice is uniform and unambiguous toward all phenomena encountered in Zen
>practice, including phenomena in the makyo, jhana and kensho-satori states,
>and
>this advice is: Continue practicing.
Absolutely!!! My further take on all this is that Zen is the alpha and omega of
all the'paths'. What we see in front of us before we come to Zen is the same as
what we'll see when we realise True Nature. Everything in between is a detour,
although a useful and deepening detour, but a detour none-the-less. All we need
do is open our eyes.
Mike
________________________________
From: ED <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 18 April, 2011 15:04:33
Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release
Mike,
Is there any statement in my post below that you disagree with?
Thanks, ED
--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
ED,
Yes, I have only come across one source that argues the jhana states are
essential for Enlightenment and he (Jeffrey Brooks) is widely ignored in the
Buddhist community. I do think that attainment of the jhanas indicates some
kind
of stage in meditation, but not an essential stage. They are useful for gaining
a strong, one-pointed concentration that can be applied to insight meditation
(vipassana) which can lead to Enlightenment, but they are not the goal
themselves. In fact, much like the song of the sirens, they can distracting to
such an extent that they lead a person away from the path permanently (read
anything by Jeffrey Brooks!). The way to 'tie yourself to the mast' is, as you
already pointed out, to just continue practicing.
Mike
Anthony,
In "Zen-Mind Reflections" by Dr. James Austin, the absorbtions (jhana states)
are said to comprise a stage one may encounter in one's practice, and which
stage lies between the makyo ('awakenings') and kensho-statori (wisdom-insight)
stages.
As reported in the Theravada literature, the Buddha himself encountered these
jhana states prior to his enlightenment, and prior to his demise - and
very probably at other times too.
The jhana states are not 'illusory' states, as they are the actual
personal experiences (sensations, visions, bliss states, compassion states) of
the the meditator - and they are all impermanent, as are all phenomena. The
experiences in each of the eight jhana states has been been itemized in detail
in the Theravada literature.
The advice is uniform and unambiguous toward all phenomena encountered in Zen
practice, including phenomena in the makyo, jhana and kensho-satori states, and
this advice is: Continue practicing.
--ED
