Joe, My remarks are embedded in your post below:
--- In [email protected], "maitreya003" <joultimo@...> wrote: [Joe] If you want to call buddha nature experience not mind, then how can experience or awareness of experience appear or exist without a mind? [Bill!] As I indicated in one of my recent posts on this thread, when I use the word 'mind' I refer to the dualistic, discriminating mind. Experience exists BEFORE mind. Mind creates dualisms, judgements, categories, etc..., of experiences. Plants experience. Plants do not have minds - at least I beleive they do not. [Joe] ...buddha taught mind mixes with buddha nature like water mixing with water,... [Bill!] I have never heard of the teaching you attribute to Buddha (Siddartha? Recorded in a Sutra?), but if he did say something to the effect that '...mind mixes with buddha nature like water mixing with water...', what that would mean to me is that both concepts of Buddha Nature and Mind (or you could think 'parts') mix together so thoughly that they become One (non-dualistic) - and that One is Buddha Nature (not the concept of Buddha Nature but awareness of pure experience (aka Buddha Nature). [Joe] ...so if there is a part of mind that is discriminating, or that feels, can there also not be a part of the mind that mixes and experiences a non dualistic experience of buddha nature. [Bill!] If there is a mind that is discriminating, it is dualistic. If the mind holds itself apart from experiences, it is dualistic. There can be no 'parts' in non-dualism. 'Parts' is a dualistic concept. Buddha Nature is non-dualistic. [Joe] how can buddha nature be experienced without an experiencer? [Bill!] Buddha Nature cannot 'be experienced'. That does imply a dualism as you suggest - an 'experiencer'. Buddha Nature is non-dualistic. Buddha Nature IS experience. ...Bill! ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
