Mike, In my previous post I indicated that I was not taught there were any 'signposts' or intermediary steps before kensho. There might be, but every time I came into dokusan (private interview with the Roshi to discuss your practice) and thought I had some interesting experiences to talk about they were quickly dismissed out-of-hand. I was given the koan Mu very early in my practice, the second dokusan I think, and from then on it was only 'Show me Mu!' or 'Bring me Mu!'; and then the ding-a-ling of the Roshi 'ringing me out' of dokusan (ringing a little bell indicating this interview was finished). The atmosphere and feeling of dokusan did change a lot after kensho and when presenting follow-on koans. It was much more relaxed and converational - sometimes. Sometimes, especially when I got stuck on something, it reverted back to being more combatative and demanding.
Looking back on it I wouldn't say I (we) ever make a conscious decision to 'climb the pole'. I would say we are already up there and we just don't know it. In order to breakthrough and reach kensho you have to let go of everything you are holding onto and take the metephorical leap into the bottomless pit, nothingness, chaos. That's the way I would describe it now that I look back on it. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > It certainly sounds like you had a distinctly privileged background in your > early Zen training. Wouldn't you agree tho that it sounds like their/your > early practice had a certain 'advancing step by step' feel to it? Even taking > a step off the 100ft pole implies a journey. Remember, I'm not talking about > ultimates here - just the recognition of certain signposts along the way (no > matter what shape or form they might take). I'm not sure what your response > to the 100ft pole koan was, but for me my response (moving beyond what I say > above) would be, 'Don't climb the pole in the first place'. > > Mike > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011, 12:42 > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > >  > Mike, > > He did, or at least Koryu Rosshi did. Koryu Roshi was a Renzai Zen master > and one of Maezumi's teachers from whom Maezumi had received inca. When I > started going to ZCLA Koryu Roshi was still there and took some of the > students from time to time. I don't know really why when I went I was > assigned to Koryu Roshi. Maybe there was some purpose, or maybe he just > randomly took the 'overflow' from Maezumi. Anyway he's the one who started > me on koan study and with whom I first worked on the koan Mu. > > After I had worked with him for a while and developed the requisite faith in > him I finally did take that 'step off the 100-ft pole'. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > And if Maezumi told you to step off a hundred foot pole?.... > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011, 10:05 > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > > > à> > Mike, > > > > That individual was Maezumi Roshi...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > As you say, it was someone else who told you to ignore your experience in > > > the zendo. Did that person himself experiece such 'phenonema' or were > > > they also just repeating what they had been told? If you've ever > > > experienced kensho (and I'm sure you have), then you'd know that this > > > also affects the body/mind in a way that is not the same as 'just > > > sitting' in our usual day-to-day practice. Yet kensho is not dismissed in > > > the same way. Personally, I feel that such phenonema are indications that > > > the illusionary obstacles we have developed in life are losing their grip > > > on us and the purity of the Mind (our true state) is shining thru. As > > > such, they are important signposts on the path and although it misses the > > > point to strive towards them (maybe this is what your priest was wary > > > of), it also misses the mark to say they are unimportant. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2011, 10:19 > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > JMJM, > > > > > > When I was beginning my zen training and sitting shikantaza (clear mind) > > > I 'witnessed' several color phenomenom. A bright white light which seem > > > to emanate from the people sitting around me and surround them like an > > > aura, and a golden light which enveloped me as if I were surrounded by > > > and suspended in honey. > > > > > > In both cases my teacher at the time told me these were just 'maya' and > > > unimportant, and told me to pay no attention to them, let them slide away > > > and 'just sit'. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > > ÃÆ'èÃâæÃâúÃÆ'ÃÂ¥Ãâæâââ¬Å¾Ã¢ÃÆ'çÃâòÃâþÃÆ'æÃâ¹Ã "Ãâ¦Ã½ > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Good morning to All, > > > > > > > > Perhaps if you would, please allow me to share with you some of the > > > > labels used by my Teacher to interpret the witness of Juemiao Miaoming, > > > > recipient of Buddha Heart Imprint. > > > > > > > > The lineage of Chan is passed on two routes, the form and the formless. > > > > One without the other, is incomplete. Let me explain some of the > > > > details. > > > > > > > > The lineage of Chan is passed through and in sync both in archived > > > > lineage chart(form) as well as the Buddha Heart Imprint(formless). > > > > > > > > As we know the conversion to Chan is to convert to Buddha, Dharma, > > > > Sangha (form) and the Trikaya (formless). Buddha is the Nirmanakaya. > > > > Dharma is the Sambhogakaya and Shangha is the Nirmanakaya. > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of the three color lights, as taught by my > > > > Teacher, are -- Gold is the Nirmanakaya, Red is the Nirmanakaya. Green > > > > is the Sambhogakaya. These are also the logo of our lineage. > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of the intense white light in the Heart > > > > Chakra is the Kensho, which does not fade away. Which I have mentioned > > > > off and on throughout the years that I am on this forum. > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of thousands of lights is what Buddha > > > > witnessed under the Bodhi tree before his enlightenment. As stated in > > > > our Master's Diamond Sutra DVD, these lights are not in the night sky, > > > > but inside our body. > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's heart felt connection of compassion and truth upon > > > > recipient of this transmission is what it is. > > > > > > > > I am grateful to have participated in witnessing this event and > > > > communicating to everyone. > > > > > > > > In short, a true transmission of Buddha Heart Imprint, from a > > > > non-English speaking master to a non-Chinese speaking desciple requires > > > > no word and only requires a single meeting of hearts. > > > > > > > > As Juemiao Miaoming said, "this is an auspicious day." > > > > > > > > Thank you for your attention. > > > > > > > > BTW, if you would like to talk to Miaoming privately, he will be most > > > > delighted. Contact me and I will forward his private email. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To be enlightened in this life... > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > To save our world... > > > > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
