On a discursive note, I always thought the 100-foot pole is more related to the dilemma of knowing the oneness of all that is, and how then does one move from this timeless awareness to some action. I never thought it was to do with discursive thought, being a more advanced koan than Mu, but more along the lines of why should the buddha teach enlightenment rather than simply enjoy it. (Note that I'm not in koan training.) It's the sort of thing you'd want to wrestle with if you some how find yourself thinking that zen is about passively sitting all the time and not engaging in the life before you.
The answer I suspect is plain action - there's no dilemma. Action arises as it's needed. Thanks, --Chris [email protected] +1-301-270-6524 On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:01 AM, kirk crist <[email protected]> wrote: > > > there is no pole > s no pole > *From:* mike brown <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:53 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > Bill!, > > Wouldn't it be fair to say that koans are given based on the level of > attainment of a particular student? Only when a student has reached a > somewhat proficient level are advanced koans given to breakthru a particular > sticking point of the student. > > As for the '100ft pole' koan, I understand the 'letting go' aspect > (pre-kensho), but it also addresses the (usual) problem of thinking > discursively instead of employing immediacy - hence the not climbing of the > pole in the first place. > > Mike > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bill! <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 October 2011, 16:47 > *Subject:* [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > Mike, > > In my previous post I indicated that I was not taught there were any > 'signposts' or intermediary steps before kensho. There might be, but every > time I came into dokusan (private interview with the Roshi to discuss your > practice) and thought I had some interesting experiences to talk about they > were quickly dismissed out-of-hand. I was given the koan Mu very early in my > practice, the second dokusan I think, and from then on it was only 'Show me > Mu!' or 'Bring me Mu!'; and then the ding-a-ling of the Roshi 'ringing me > out' of dokusan (ringing a little bell indicating this interview was > finished). The atmosphere and feeling of dokusan did change a lot after > kensho and when presenting follow-on koans. It was much more relaxed and > converational - sometimes. Sometimes, especially when I got stuck on > something, it reverted back to being more combatative and demanding. > > Looking back on it I wouldn't say I (we) ever make a conscious decision to > 'climb the pole'. I would say we are already up there and we just don't know > it. In order to breakthrough and reach kensho you have to let go of > everything you are holding onto and take the metephorical leap into the > bottomless pit, nothingness, chaos. That's the way I would describe it now > that I look back on it. > > ...Bill! > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > It certainly sounds like you had a distinctly privileged background in > your early Zen training. Wouldn't you agree tho that it sounds like > their/your early practice had a certain 'advancing step by step' feel to it? > Even taking a step off the 100ft pole implies a journey. Remember, I'm not > talking about ultimates here - just the recognition of certain signposts > along the way (no matter what shape or form they might take). I'm not sure > what your response to the 100ft pole koan was, but for me my response > (moving beyond what I say above) would be, 'Don't climb the pole in the > first place'. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011, 12:42 > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > > >  > > Mike, > > > > He did, or at least Koryu Rosshi did. Koryu Roshi was a Renzai Zen master > and one of Maezumi's teachers from whom Maezumi had received inca. When I > started going to ZCLA Koryu Roshi was still there and took some of the > students from time to time. I don't know really why when I went I was > assigned to Koryu Roshi. Maybe there was some purpose, or maybe he just > randomly took the 'overflow' from Maezumi. Anyway he's the one who started > me on koan study and with whom I first worked on the koan Mu. > > > > After I had worked with him for a while and developed the requisite faith > in him I finally did take that 'step off the 100-ft pole'. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > And if Maezumi told you to step off a hundred foot pole?.... > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011, 10:05 > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > > > > > >  > > > Mike, > > > > > > That individual was Maezumi Roshi...Bill! > > > > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com<Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > > > As you say, it was someone else who told you to ignore your > experience in the zendo. Did that person himself experiece such 'phenonema' > or were they also just repeating what they had been told? If you've ever > experienced kensho (and I'm sure you have), then you'd know that this also > affects the body/mind in a way that is not the same as 'just sitting' in our > usual day-to-day practice. Yet kensho is not dismissed in the same way. > Personally, I feel that such phenonema are indications that the illusionary > obstacles we have developed in life are losing their grip on us and the > purity of the Mind (our true state) is shining thru. As such, they are > important signposts on the path and although it misses the point to strive > towards them (maybe this is what your priest was wary of), it also misses > the mark to say they are unimportant. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2011, 10:19 > > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha Heart Imprint II > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > JMJM, > > > > > > > > When I was beginning my zen training and sitting shikantaza (clear > mind) I 'witnessed' several color phenomenom. A bright white light which > seem to emanate from the people sitting around me and surround them like an > aura, and a golden light which enveloped me as if I were surrounded by and > suspended in honey. > > > > > > > > In both cases my teacher at the time told me these were just 'maya' > and unimportant, and told me to pay no attention to them, let them slide > away and 'just sit'. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com<Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > Jue Miao Jing Ming - > ÃÆ'¨Â¦ÂºÃÆ'¥Â¦â„¢ÃÆ'§Â²Â¾ÃÆ'¦ËÅ"Ž > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Good morning to All, > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps if you would, please allow me to share with you some of the > > > > > > labels used by my Teacher to interpret the witness of Juemiao > Miaoming, > > > > > recipient of Buddha Heart Imprint. > > > > > > > > > > The lineage of Chan is passed on two routes, the form and the > formless. > > > > > One without the other, is incomplete. Let me explain some of the > details. > > > > > > > > > > The lineage of Chan is passed through and in sync both in archived > > > > > lineage chart(form) as well as the Buddha Heart Imprint(formless). > > > > > > > > > > As we know the conversion to Chan is to convert to Buddha, Dharma, > > > > > Sangha (form) and the Trikaya (formless). Buddha is the > Nirmanakaya. > > > > > Dharma is the Sambhogakaya and Shangha is the Nirmanakaya. > > > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of the three color lights, as taught by > my > > > > > Teacher, are -- Gold is the Nirmanakaya, Red is the Nirmanakaya. > Green > > > > > is the Sambhogakaya. These are also the logo of our lineage. > > > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of the intense white light in the Heart > > > > > Chakra is the Kensho, which does not fade away. Which I have > mentioned > > > > > off and on throughout the years that I am on this forum. > > > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's witness of thousands of lights is what Buddha > > > > > witnessed under the Bodhi tree before his enlightenment. As stated > in > > > > > our Master's Diamond Sutra DVD, these lights are not in the night > sky, > > > > > but inside our body. > > > > > > > > > > Juemiao Miaoming's heart felt connection of compassion and truth > upon > > > > > recipient of this transmission is what it is. > > > > > > > > > > I am grateful to have participated in witnessing this event and > > > > > communicating to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > In short, a true transmission of Buddha Heart Imprint, from a > > > > > non-English speaking master to a non-Chinese speaking desciple > requires > > > > > no word and only requires a single meeting of hearts. > > > > > > > > > > As Juemiao Miaoming said, "this is an auspicious day." > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your attention. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, if you would like to talk to Miaoming privately, he will be > most > > > > > delighted. Contact me and I will forward his private email. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > To be enlightened in this life... > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > To save our world... > > > > > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
