Edgar, Yes, both the sutras and the Gospels are supposed to have been written by 'masters', but what made them 'masters'? Only that they were stenographers for someone else? That's not a very strong credential for me. I guess you could say their value was choosing WHAT to record, but they didn't even comment on it. They just recorded it - supposedly.
Anyway I won't argue that a lot of 'holy' writing aren't chock full of a lot of good stuff, but if I'm being told things like that I'd like an opportunity to discuss it first hand with the original author, not just read a cold, dead page of words. --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Not Buddha himself, but I thought they were thought to have been written by > specific masters... > > Edgar > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > I'm not sure what you mean. > > > > I'm sure you know that none of the sutras, or anything else for that > > matter, was written by Buddha himself. The sutras at their best are > > firsthand accounts of Buddha's teachings, much like the Gospels in the New > > Testament are supposed to be firsthand accounts of Jesus' teachings. > > > > Just how close to 'firsthand' they actually are I really don't know. These > > may have been handed down by word-of-mouth for generations before someone > > put them in writing, and even at best they are someone else's recollection > > and interpretation of what Buddha or Jesus said or did. And worse yet for > > us they have all been filtered through language translations, and in most > > cases several levels of those. And then there certainly could have been > > 'censoring' or 'editing' of some of the information by the then-established > > religious elite as we know there was in the New Testament. > > > > That's why I'd rather just hear direct from any of you out there than be > > directed to a quote from someone with whom I can't question or discuss > > their thoughts. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > >> > >> What about the Heart and Diamond Sutras though? > >> > >> Edgar > >> > >> > >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:21 PM, Bill! wrote: > >> > >>> This is true in my experience. Most texts are written ABOUT zen masters, > >>> no BY zen masters. There are some notable exceptions, but for example > >>> Buddha himself left no writings (we know of). Neither did important zen > >>> masters like Joshu. And of course Jesus left no personal written > >>> teachings. > >>> > >>> ...Bill! > >>> > >>> --- In [email protected], Kristopher Grey <kris@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Not being able to read from those who have not written, this is your > >>>> understanding of 'zen masters'. Most do not write. With other forms of > >>>> Buddhism, same. Yet, there are more works than can easily be cataloged. > >>>> Also notice how much is written ABOUT such 'masters', and about Buddha - > >>>> and consider why this is so. > >>>> > >>>> K > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 6/2/2012 8:42 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > >>>>> How come zen masters historically produced more words than any > >>>>> Buddhist sects did? > >>>>> Anthony > >>>>> > >>>>> *From:* Joe <desert_woodworker@> > >>>>> *To:* [email protected] > >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 2 June 2012, 7:20 > >>>>> *Subject:* [Zen] Re: News: Stanford scholar tracks meditation's > >>>>> migration from ancient monasteries to modern yoga > >>>>> > >>>>> --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > >>>>> "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Zen is nothing about which anything can be said? > >>>>> > >>>>> Probably the less said the better. People get entangled or biased. > >>>>> > >>>>> We can talk about zen PRACTICE, though, and the more said, and the > >>>>> more practiced, the better. > >>>>> > >>>>> --Joe / Tucson > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
