Edgar, Hui Neng's Altar Sutra was not written by Hui Neng but one of his disciples - at least that is my understanding.
Hui Neng did write a nice commentary on the Diamond Sutra, but again that's Hui Neng's commentary on someone else's account of what Buddha taught. The commentary is original and interesting but it is after all just a commentary on someone else's words. I'm not familiar with any of his poems except the few that are embedded in the Altar Sutra and his commentary. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Why do assume the words weren't their own? Hui Neng's poem seems to have > been... > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 3:47 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > Yes, both the sutras and the Gospels are supposed to have been written by > > 'masters', but what made them 'masters'? Only that they were stenographers > > for someone else? That's not a very strong credential for me. I guess you > > could say their value was choosing WHAT to record, but they didn't even > > comment on it. They just recorded it - supposedly. > > > > Anyway I won't argue that a lot of 'holy' writing aren't chock full of a > > lot of good stuff, but if I'm being told things like that I'd like an > > opportunity to discuss it first hand with the original author, not just > > read a cold, dead page of words. > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > Not Buddha himself, but I thought they were thought to have been written > > > by specific masters... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > On Jun 3, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean. > > > > > > > > I'm sure you know that none of the sutras, or anything else for that > > > > matter, was written by Buddha himself. The sutras at their best are > > > > firsthand accounts of Buddha's teachings, much like the Gospels in the > > > > New Testament are supposed to be firsthand accounts of Jesus' teachings. > > > > > > > > Just how close to 'firsthand' they actually are I really don't know. > > > > These may have been handed down by word-of-mouth for generations before > > > > someone put them in writing, and even at best they are someone else's > > > > recollection and interpretation of what Buddha or Jesus said or did. > > > > And worse yet for us they have all been filtered through language > > > > translations, and in most cases several levels of those. And then there > > > > certainly could have been 'censoring' or 'editing' of some of the > > > > information by the then-established religious elite as we know there > > > > was in the New Testament. > > > > > > > > That's why I'd rather just hear direct from any of you out there than > > > > be directed to a quote from someone with whom I can't question or > > > > discuss their thoughts. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> What about the Heart and Diamond Sutras though? > > > >> > > > >> Edgar > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:21 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> This is true in my experience. Most texts are written ABOUT zen > > > >>> masters, no BY zen masters. There are some notable exceptions, but > > > >>> for example Buddha himself left no writings (we know of). Neither did > > > >>> important zen masters like Joshu. And of course Jesus left no > > > >>> personal written teachings. > > > >>> > > > >>> ...Bill! > > > >>> > > > >>> --- In [email protected], Kristopher Grey <kris@> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Not being able to read from those who have not written, this is your > > > >>>> understanding of 'zen masters'. Most do not write. With other forms > > > >>>> of > > > >>>> Buddhism, same. Yet, there are more works than can easily be > > > >>>> cataloged. > > > >>>> Also notice how much is written ABOUT such 'masters', and about > > > >>>> Buddha - > > > >>>> and consider why this is so. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> K > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On 6/2/2012 8:42 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > > >>>>> How come zen masters historically produced more words than any > > > >>>>> Buddhist sects did? > > > >>>>> Anthony > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> *From:* Joe <desert_woodworker@> > > > >>>>> *To:* [email protected] > > > >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 2 June 2012, 7:20 > > > >>>>> *Subject:* [Zen] Re: News: Stanford scholar tracks meditation's > > > >>>>> migration from ancient monasteries to modern yoga > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> --- In [email protected] > > > >>>>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > >>>>> "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Zen is nothing about which anything can be said? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Probably the less said the better. People get entangled or biased. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> We can talk about zen PRACTICE, though, and the more said, and the > > > >>>>> more practiced, the better. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> --Joe / Tucson > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
