[Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 00:38:47 -0700 

If I remember correctly Edgar's girl said 'Mu' not 'moo'...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
>  
> So you echoe Edgar's girl in saying 'moo'.
>  
> Anthony
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: billsmart <BillSmart@...>
> To: [email protected] 
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012, 10:01
> Subject: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> 
> 
>   
> Anthony,
> 
> Moo!
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill!/Merle,
> >  
> > At least the way Tibetan monks conduct sex rituals sounds like treating 
> > women like cattle. That is in the name of reaching highest compassion 
> > and emptiness in the process.
> >  
> > Anthony
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>
> > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 16:46
> > Subject: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > He (IMO) is just a walking bumper-sticker machine. How could you take 
> > anyone seriously who purports to be a big-time Buddhist teacher while 
> > encouraging his people to cling to their attachments to their culture and 
> > language, and supports a theocracy which enslaves and exploits non-clerics 
> > by keeping them in ignorance and treats women like cattle?
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >  bill that's not very nice...i have many of his books...and his 
> > > teachings are sound...merle
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > Anthony,
> > > 
> > > Don't put too much stock in anything The Dalai Lama says. He's now just 
> > > another out-of-work politician...Bill!
> > > 
> > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Edgar,
> > > > That garbage was obtained from Internet, more than one source. Does it 
> > > > sound reasonalbe?
> > > > Anthony
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>
> > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 7:31
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > Anthony,
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know where you get this garbage Antony?
> > > > 
> > > > Edgar
> > > > 
> > > > On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Edgar,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dalai Lama says, if you are faced with two glasses, one containing 
> > > > > wine, the other urine, you must drink both without hesitation, in 
> > > > > order to qualify for the sex yoga you describe. Right?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anthony
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net>
> > > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 8:30
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hi Anthony, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sure, it's possible I do it all the time...
> > > > > 
> > > > > Edgar
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Edgar,
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> You say, ' Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this 
> > > > >> attachment to generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but 
> > > > >> then instead of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the 
> > > > >> other chakras flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being 
> > > > >> and fill it with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being 
> > > > >> glows with chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates 
> > > > >> Buddha Nature back out into the universe...'
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Is it really possible? Or just an excuse for the pleasue of actual 
> > > > >> organism, no matter if the body is invigorated with love or not?
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> Anthony
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <mailto:chris%40austin-lane.net>
> > > > >> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 22:19
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> On Sep 12, 2012 5:06 AM, "Edgar Owen" <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> 
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> Hi Mike,
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> I rarely use most of the old words 
> > > > >>> from the texts since I find many of 
> > > > >>> them confused and overlapping.
> > > > >> The very nature of words. 
> > > > >> But fresh language that captures the freshness of the current moment 
> > > > >> is always welcome. 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> As for the high heels clicking towards you on the sidewalk. Enjoy 
> > > > >>> but don't get too attached! Recognize that as one of the BIGGEST 
> > > > >>> attachments men especially have to deal with. Just realize it's 
> > > > >>> true nature, a biological trick evolution plays on men to 
> > > > >>> perpetuate the species no matter at what cost!
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to 
> > > > >>> generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead 
> > > > >>> of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras 
> > > > >>> flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it 
> > > > >>> with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with 
> > > > >>> chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature 
> > > > >>> back out into the universe...
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> This is the golden glow often depicted radiating around Buddha...
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> Edgar
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mike brown wrote:
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> Edgar,
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> I think you see Mara somewhat differently to how I see it. You 
> > > > >>>> seem to see Mara as the illusion of forms, but understanding them 
> > > > >>>> as illusion is still reality and not apart of the All which is 
> > > > >>>> Buddha Nature. Fair enough, but i think this is more of a Mahayana 
> > > > >>>> understanding of Mara. I see Mara as originally understood - the 
> > > > >>>> temptation of the senses that leads us to suffering. I can see the 
> > > > >>>> overlaps tho, so I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure we both 
> > > > >>>> see the world as contin gent and consciousness arises differently 
> > > > >>>> depending on what condition presents. For example, If I hear the 
> > > > >>>> sound of high heels coming towards me, my mind begins formulating 
> > > > >>>> the idea of 'female' and 'beauty' 'desire' etc. My body follows 
> > > > >>>> along and so my heart beat increases, adrenalin is released along 
> > > > >>>> with some serotonin etc etc. I then build a story/mental formation 
> > > > >>>> onto this and might start imagining meeting this woman (still 
> > > > >>>> unseen!) and... well, you know the rest. All
>  from
> > > the
> > > > > sound of shoes!! This is the meaning of Mara to me - a tempting of 
> > > > > the senses that leads us into suffering (self-inflicted!) and can 
> > > > > occur from moment to moment as new conditions present. I guess I'm 
> > > > > operating from the micro while you're doing so from the macro. But 
> > > > > then again, it never hurts to see the bigger picture.
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> Mike
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> ________________________________
> > > > >>>> From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net>
> > > > >>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 11:35
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> Mike and Kris,
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the 
> > > > >>>> world of forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR 
> > > > >>>> WORLD. Properly realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha 
> > > > >>>> Nature but a manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion 
> > > > >>>> when taken for the whole of reality rather than being realized as 
> > > > >>>> a manifestation of Buddha Nature itself.
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> Edgar
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote:
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Kris,
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. 
> > > > >>>>>> Abiding as whatever presents.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness 
> > > > >>>>> arises with whatever presents from moment to moment 
> > > > >>>>> (conditioned). But it's how we react, or not, to these moments 
> > > > >>>>> that is the crux of whether we suffer... or not.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in 
> > > > >>>>> Buddhism, including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' 
> > > > >>>>> they will experience a life free of attachments, desires and 
> > > > >>>>> craving. If conditions are right, we can experience moments of 
> > > > >>>>> liberation, but we live in a contingent world and so always need 
> > > > >>>>> to pay attention to each and every moment.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Nice.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be 
> > > > >>>>>> mindful you don't reject it.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to 
> > > > >>>>> you, but your enemies closer ; )
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Mike
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> ________________________________
> > > > >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <mailto:kris%40kgrey.com>
> > > > >>>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com 
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55
> > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> Kris,
> > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>>> The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless.
> > > > >>>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we 
> > > > >>>>>> grow sick, we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't 
> > > > >>>>>> know what's just around the corner ready to befall us. In order 
> > > > >>>>>> to "realise" suffering fully we need to pay mindful attention to 
> > > > >>>>>> what impacts on us - not to just the external stimuli, but also 
> > > > >>>>>> to how we react to them inwardly.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent 
> > > > >>>>> origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none 
> > > > >>>>> other than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great 
> > > > >>>>> effort to maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not 
> > > > >>>>> abiding take great effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. 
> > > > >>>>> Delusions of not abiding take great effort to maintain.].)...
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness 
> > > > >>>>> is sufficient. ;)
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by 
> > > > >>>>>> Mara from time to time. life happens moment to moment and no 
> > > > >>>>>> over-riding state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment 
> > > > >>>>>> will eradicate the potential to suffer at any time. All we can 
> > > > >>>>>> do is constantly practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so 
> > > > >>>>>> restless and we can be more aware of those first stirrings of 
> > > > >>>>>> the mind to be so reactive.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished 
> > > > >>>>> was born to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion 
> > > > >>>>> is see it was never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other 
> > > > >>>>> realization/no realization of other.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be 
> > > > >>>>> mindful you don't reject it.
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> KG
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >>> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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