Edgar, At least I know of two examples where giirls don't reach enlightenment orgasms in those tantra rituals: June Campbell and a Buthanese women who appealed to the king to ban the rituals. They were used by their partners to reach enlightenment orgasms, or orgasms without enlightenment. I believe some women may like the ritual and scream, but am not sure what percentage. Anthony
________________________________ From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 19:50 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA Anthony, Don't be silly. The girls reach enlightenment orgasms in those Tantra rituals. And when they come they scream "MU!" :-) Edgar On Sep 14, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > >Bill!/Merle, > >At least the way Tibetan monks conduct sex rituals sounds like treating women >like cattle. That is in the name of reaching highest compassion and emptiness >in the process. > >Anthony > > > >________________________________ >From: Bill! <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 16:46 >Subject: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > >He (IMO) is just a walking bumper-sticker machine. How could you take anyone >seriously who purports to be a big-time Buddhist teacher while encouraging his >people to cling to their attachments to their culture and language, and >supports a theocracy which enslaves and exploits non-clerics by keeping them >in ignorance and treats women like cattle? > >...Bill! > >--- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> >wrote: >> >>  bill that's not very nice...i have many of his books...and his teachings >> are sound...merle >> >> >>  >> Anthony, >> >> Don't put too much stock in anything The Dalai Lama says. He's now just >> another out-of-work politician...Bill! >> >> --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: >> > >> > Edgar, >> > That garbage was obtained from Internet, more than one source. Does it >> > sound reasonalbe? >> > Anthony >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> >> > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 7:31 >> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> > >> > >> >  >> > Anthony, >> > >> > I don't know where you get this garbage Antony? >> > >> > Edgar >> > >> > On Sep 13, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >> > >> > > Edgar, >> > > >> > > Dalai Lama says, if you are faced with two glasses, one containing wine, >> > > the other urine, you must drink both without hesitation, in order to >> > > qualify for the sex yoga you describe. Right? >> > > >> > > Anthony >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________ >> > > From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> >> > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> > > Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 8:30 >> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Hi Anthony, >> > > >> > > Sure, it's possible I do it all the time... >> > > >> > > Edgar >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Edgar, >> > >> >> > >> You say, ' Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this >> > >> attachment to generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then >> > >> instead of releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other >> > >> chakras flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill >> > >> it with pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with >> > >> chi in the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature back >> > >> out into the universe...' >> > >> >> > >> Is it really possible? Or just an excuse for the pleasue of actual >> > >> organism, no matter if the body is invigorated with love or not? >> > >> >> > >> Anthony >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ________________________________ >> > >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <mailto:chris%40austin-lane.net> >> > >> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 22:19 >> > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Sep 12, 2012 5:06 AM, "Edgar Owen" <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> >> > >> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Hi Mike, >> > >>> >> > >>> I rarely use most of the old words >> > >>> from the texts since I find many of >> > >>> them confused and overlapping. >> > >> The very nature of words. >> > >> But fresh language that captures the freshness of the current moment is >> > >> always welcome. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> > >>> As for the high heels clicking towards you on the sidewalk. Enjoy but >> > >>> don't get too attached! Recognize that as one of the BIGGEST >> > >>> attachments men especially have to deal with. Just realize it's true >> > >>> nature, a biological trick evolution plays on men to perpetuate the >> > >>> species no matter at what cost! >> > >>> >> > >>> Remember Tantra, and some Taoist schools, use this attachment to >> > >>> generate intensity of chi in the sexual chakras, but then instead of >> > >>> releasing it in orgasm, directs it up through the other chakras >> > >>> flooding the whole body to invigorate the whole being and fill it with >> > >>> pure objectLESS love. In this way the whole being glows with chi in >> > >>> the form of pure unmediated love and radiates Buddha Nature back out >> > >>> into the universe... >> > >>> >> > >>> This is the golden glow often depicted radiating around Buddha... >> > >>> >> > >>> Edgar >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:44 AM, mike brown wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Edgar, >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I think you see Mara somewhat differently to how I see it. You seem >> > >>>> to see Mara as the illusion of forms, but understanding them as >> > >>>> illusion is still reality and not apart of the All which is Buddha >> > >>>> Nature. Fair enough, but i think this is more of a Mahayana >> > >>>> understanding of Mara. I see Mara as originally understood - the >> > >>>> temptation of the senses that leads us to suffering. I can see the >> > >>>> overlaps tho, so I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure we both see >> > >>>> the world as contin gent and consciousness arises differently >> > >>>> depending on what condition presents. For example, If I hear the >> > >>>> sound of high heels coming towards me, my mind begins formulating the >> > >>>> idea of 'female' and 'beauty' 'desire' etc. My body follows along and >> > >>>> so my heart beat increases, adrenalin is released along with some >> > >>>> serotonin etc etc. I then build a story/mental formation onto this >> > >>>> and might start imagining meeting this woman (still unseen!) and... >> > >>>> well, you know the rest. All from >> the >> > > sound of shoes!! This is the meaning of Mara to me - a tempting of the >> > > senses that leads us into suffering (self-inflicted!) and can occur from >> > > moment to moment as new conditions present. I guess I'm operating from >> > > the micro while you're doing so from the macro. But then again, it never >> > > hurts to see the bigger picture. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Mike >> > >>>> >> > >>>> ________________________________ >> > >>>> From: Edgar Owen <mailto:edgarowen%40att.net> >> > >>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012, 11:35 >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Mike and Kris, >> > >>>> >> > >>>> This is consistent with what I say, that Mara (illusion or the world >> > >>>> of forms) is the WAY THAT BUDDHA NATURE MANIFESTS IN OUR WORLD. >> > >>>> Properly realized Mara is not something apart from Buddha Nature but >> > >>>> a manifestation of Buddha Nature. Mara is only illusion when taken >> > >>>> for the whole of reality rather than being realized as a >> > >>>> manifestation of Buddha Nature itself. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Edgar >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> On Sep 11, 2012, at 8:28 PM, mike brown wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Kris, >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> What you seek to attend to, is none other than that attending. >> > >>>>>> Abiding as whatever presents. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> I agree. This is just another way of saying that consciousness >> > >>>>> arises with whatever presents from moment to moment (conditioned). >> > >>>>> But it's how we react, or not, to these moments that is the crux of >> > >>>>> whether we suffer... or not. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Again, I agree. I think there's a very shallow belief in Buddhism, >> > >>>>> including zen, that when someone becomes 'enlightened' they will >> > >>>>> experience a life free of attachments, desires and craving. If >> > >>>>> conditions are right, we can experience moments of liberation, but >> > >>>>> we live in a contingent world and so always need to pay attention to >> > >>>>> each and every moment. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Nice. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be >> > >>>>>> mindful you don't reject it. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Well, you know what they say about keeping your friends close to >> > >>>>> you, but your enemies closer ; ) >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Mike >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> ________________________________ >> > >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <mailto:kris%40kgrey.com> >> > >>>>> To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com >> > >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012, 2:55 >> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> On 9/9/2012 3:34 PM, mike brown wrote: >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Kris, >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> The nature of this realized, cessation is effortless. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> We're contingent beings in a contingent world. We're born, we grow >> > >>>>>> sick, we grow old, we die. In a contingent world we don't know >> > >>>>>> what's just around the corner ready to befall us. In order to >> > >>>>>> "realise" suffering fully we need to pay mindful attention to what >> > >>>>>> impacts on us - not to just the external stimuli, but also to how >> > >>>>>> we react to them inwardly. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> While all this is so, these are not separate. 'No independent >> > >>>>> origination". Contingent. What you seek to attend to, is none other >> > >>>>> than that attending. Abiding as whatever presents. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take great effort >> > >>>>> to maintain (Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not abiding take >> > >>>>> great effort to maintain [Abiding is not optional. Delusions of not >> > >>>>> abiding take great effort to maintain.].)... >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> If you realize at least 1/3 of that last bit - your mindfulness is >> > >>>>> sufficient. ;) >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> Even after Buddha's defeat of Mara, he was still 'visited' by Mara >> > >>>>>> from time to time. life happens moment to moment and no over-riding >> > >>>>>> state of mind/knowledge/understanding/Enlightenment will eradicate >> > >>>>>> the potential to suffer at any time. All we can do is constantly >> > >>>>>> practice mindfulness until our mind isn't so restless and we can be >> > >>>>>> more aware of those first stirrings of the mind to be so reactive. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> There is no Buddha without Mara. Neither victor nor vanquished was >> > >>>>> born to fight nor dies in the struggle. To conquer delusion is see >> > >>>>> it was never otherwise. Samsara is Nirvana. No other realization/no >> > >>>>> realization of other. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> All teachings of Buddha are carried and delivered by Mara. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> The Middle Way cannot be entered without Mara's invitation. Be >> > >>>>> mindful you don't reject it. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> KG >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >
