Merle, No, I don't think violence is the answer. I'm not sure there is an answer to the 'nationalistic' problem other than dropping your attachments. But I guess that would be too easy, wouldn't it?
Anyway, you're the one with the magic sword! What would you do? How do you 'solve' this? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  so must that mean violence is the answer?,,,merle..not merlin... > > >  > Merle! Merle! > > I don't know. Your post below suggested you thought just 'throwing up your > hands' was not adequate...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àbill! bill!..would i take up arms?..merle > > à> > Merle, > > > > So what would you suggest? We complain, and then stage violent protests > > including self-immolation, then take up arms against the 'oppressor'? > > > > "Come all ye young rebels, and list while I sing, > > For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. > > It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, > > And it makes us all part of the patriot game." - Dominic Behan > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâàjust because the social system of tibet is backward does not > > > give the chinese the right to set in...the tibetian people can do the > > > reforming..china is about invasion and expansion...i do not believe they > > > are concerned about helping reform... that is secondary and the han > > > people will breed and take over what was once a unique culture... yes it > > > is an old story...the invasion and the rule by force of those who are in > > > their own country and too weak to fight back...but that does not make it > > > right and just..and do we throw our hands up in the air and gaze into > > > space thinking "oh well,..such is life".... ????? merle > > > Ãâà> > > Israel is the result of invasion by Jewish people into the land of Arabs. > > > Is it justified? Should the Kurds get an independent country? > > > Furthermore, how about Australian aborigines and American Indians? Based > > > on language and ethnicity, Indonesia should be broken up into a hundred > > > countries. We had better let politics run their courses. > > > > > > Discussion makes little sense here, unless we find real atrocities > > > committed. You can say the horrible crimes of the Tibetan theocracy is > > > Chinese propaganda, because you don't see them. I don't see them either, > > > however, the social system ruled by previous Dalais were rather backward, > > > which is almost certain. It is more wholesome to discuss whether the > > > Tibetan Tantra is part of Buddhism. > > > Ãâà> > > While I keep an open mind, I have found the following facts conspicuous: > > > Ãâà> > > - The Tibetan sex yoga, against Sakymuni's teaching that sex is a drag on > > > advancement toward enlighenment. That is not saying it should be banned > > > for lay people. > > > Ãâà> > > -ÃâàThe reincarnation practice that leads to Dalais, Panchens, > > > Karmapas etc to be discovered as the reincarnates of their predecessors, > > > to be worshipped like gods. Some go to the length of drinking their urine > > > and bathwater (not for the Dalai's test). > > > Ãâà> > > - Visualization and worship of all kinds of horrifying deities, in > > > contrast to the original Buddhism, which recognizes the their existence, > > > but claims they have their limitations. > > > Ãâà> > > etc. > > > Ãâà> > > Anthony > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 19:14 > > > Subject: [Zen] invasion > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > > > > > Ãâàmike i am with you 100%....merle > > > Ãâà> > > Wow, haven't been on the net for a few days and too many posts to catch > > > up on, so I've skim read thru them. My apologies if I don't immediately > > > respond to posts specifically addressed to me. I'd like to address this > > > post tho. > > > > > > > > > Bill!. I notice you've always had this almost pathological hatred of the > > > Dalai lama and I've never understood why. Your view of him is completely > > > at odds with mine, and considering we usually hold similar views, I'm > > > baffled as to why. I see a man who says there shouldn't be hatred > > > directed at the colonising Chinese, that he's not calling for an > > > independent Tibet, but that it should have some autonomy, and who exudes > > > Happiness even tho he's seen his land, people and culture decimated by > > > outside political forces (remembering too that the west did nothing about > > > the invasion of Tibet for decades). What's not to like about the man? > > > > > > Also, I think there's a big difference regarding views on nationalism if > > > you're from a powerful state compared to one which is politically and/or > > > culturally threatened by a more powerful neighbour. Should we in Wales > > > just "accept" that our language and traditions our being eroded by > > > EnglishÃâàdominance? Should Native Americans and Australians just > > > "accept" their position brought about by colonising powers? > > > > > > > > > Personally, I think a lot of the criticism directed to the Dalai Lama > > > comes from western cynicism and is not a true reflection of the man > > > himself. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Ps I lived in Yangzhou (between Shanghai and Nanjing) for several months > > > teaching English. I liked China and the Chinese, but I don't understand > > > how you could say that Tibet is China. It's like saying the Aborigines in > > > Western Australia (who didn't see a white man for another 50 years) > > > automatically became British subjects in the act of planting a Union Flag > > > on the Sydney foreshore. > > > > > > > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 10:41 > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > > > > > > ÃâàI disagree...merle > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Merle, > > > > > > If you've been to China you've been to Tibet. Tibet is part of > > > China...Bill! > > > > > > --- In mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàanthony ... i am estonian...i know the ropes > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthe tibetans want to rule their own section... so > > > > what...?.... why cannot they?...there are many minorities in china... > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàbeen to china anthony?ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > been to tibet? > > > > merle > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Merle, > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > No way China will give up the strategically important Tibet. Estonians > > > > are a completely different race than Russians. But Tibetans are from > > > > the same language family as the Han Chinese. What they do is only > > > > simplify the pronunciation fromÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà'rdzogt tschen' to > > > > 'dzog chen'. > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > To: "mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com"; > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, 16 September 2012, 15:23 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhave you been to china bill!..i have been 3 > > > > times...the han chinese are the majority > > > > > > > > .. why are you attacking the Dalai lama?///// i know about tibet and > > > > the oppressive feudal regime...however i think you'd have to actually > > > > go to tibet to witness what is going on...the han chinese are flooding > > > > tibet...is that good?...estonia my home country was > > > invaded by the russians in world war 2 and thanks to the allies the > > > russians were "given " the baltic states...so estonia was governed by the > > > kremlin and the russians flooded into estonia... since independence it is > > > madatory that one can speak estonian in order to claim estonian > > > citizenship( the russians would not learn the language..and the official > > > language when the russians were in power was russian...it's not fun > > > bill!..being overlorded by another country...so i say if the tibet wish > > > to run their own country...then they should do so and change to modernise > > > through that not have it imposed upon them by the han chinese... merle > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Bill!, > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Your remarks and quotes will make the great zombie lying in Tiananmen > > > > Square happy. But he would say, 'not enough, what I did dwarfs them'. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > To: mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012, 10:00 > > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: THE BASIC TEACHING OF BUDDHA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WOMAN LIKE CATTLE (and a lot of other information) > > > > > > > > "Tibetan Buddhism has a legacy of violence, hypocrisy, sexism, > > > > institutional sexual abuse, homophobia and religious rule by a dictator > > > > said to be a living god (the Dalai Lama) - all so the idle monk > > > > lifestyle could be supported by a feudal system of peasants who gave > > > > over half their labor/possessions. Although Chinese rule has been > > > > oppressive for the ruling Lamaist class and its defenders, is there ANY > > > > evidence to suggest that going back to rule of a feudal God-King would > > > > be better than the current system? Has ANY dictator ever ruled to the > > > > benefit of "his" people?" > > > > Source > > > > > > -ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàhttp://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/277073.shtmlÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > I hope these will suffice as 'evidence' of my opinions. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàThere are lots and lots of other sites and you can > > > > find them yourself by Binging orÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàGoggling. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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