--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
I think no one here has advice that could be helpful, and I think you are well
familiar with the territory and technic.
Jim::: If I were adequately familiar with the territory and technic, I would
already have become enlightened. The reason other people could be helpful is
that we all have different backgrounds. With different backgrounds, this other
person is going to have certain pieces of knowledge I don't know, and this
other person is going to have certain other pieces of information I don't know.
In addition, if we are all multiple personalities of the same Buddha-nature,
pairs of us need to address our boundary problem from both sides of the
boundary.
Joe::: By the way, some fine friends of mine while in NYC were devotees of
Muktananda, and I used some of his methods when I was starting, during my years
beginning Hatha yoga. I used Muktananda's practices for sitting. I resisted
meeting him, and never practiced in any of his groups, nor with my friends.
Jim::: I was the opposite, in some ways. I didn't know anything about Swamiji,
but was visiting a friend in the Berkeley area, and walking down the street,
there was meditation going on in a building. So I went and bought a present,
went in, and sat with everyone else. It was explained after a short while that
assistants were going around sprinkling perfume on people to cool them from the
energy flows, and when some drops of perfume hit me, they were cool and I
realized I felt quite hot and there were energy flows in me. He also, without
coming up and talking to me, taught me how to unblock an artery. A leg was
staying numb too long when I stood up, so my attention was drawn to a point in
my leg where an artery was blocked. Then, I was guided to mentally open up the
artery. I also was able to go to another meditation session somewhat later in
San Diego. The energy meditation I learned from Swamiji folded in with other
energy meditations I later learned at Tibetan centers, and some I learned from
an advanced Taoist student.
Joe::: When I became interested in Zen methods and tradition, I sought a
teacher and sangha, and was richly rewarded in finding Ch'an Master Sheng Yen
in Feb., 1979, and became his 13th disciple in USA in May, 1979, on a long
intensive retreat. Very fortunate! He passed away 3 years ago, and I am still
his student unremittingly.
Jim::: I hope you mean still his student literally. If not, you need to open
yourself to him. After all, it was only his body that passed away.
Joe:::Sheng Yen's teaching and ways have been the best for me. I teach a
little, but not as one who received transmission. Sheng Yen had me teaching
his physical methods since 1980, through his direct training to do so, and
through my promise to him to continue to do so.
Jim::: Over the centuries, there have been transmissions which were genuine,
and transmissions which meant nothing. So these days, how could other people
around you trust a claim to a transmission in any case. What you can actually
do is more important.
Joe::: On the "simplicity" matter, the simplicity of our original face is
something we all have: it's not an attainment, is is not added, it is not a
development, as muscles are. It is something we all have, of course. This is
what I mean by simple, basic, original, fundamental, and unsophisticated.
Jim::: Yes, of course, but the problem is that we are all somehow putting
"clouds", whatever they really are, over the face of the moon. I'm not certain,
but I think that one of the "clouds" is what the ordinary samsaric mind of
humans at this time in history is our definition of simplicity. What we see as
simple with our samsaric mind isn't real simplicity. So if we look for
something English speaking samsaric minds think is simplicity, our attention
would be drawn away from real simplicity. Using the standard meaning of an
English word when talking about the Buddha-nature is something we all do almost
automatically. It takes a deliberate attempt not to see in ways guided by the
standard meaning of an English word.
Joe::: I'm not talking about how it can function.
Jim::: How something functions is part of what it is. Functioning also has the
Buddha-nature.
Joe::: I don't say that it is not wonderful, and not quite a surprise when it
is uncovered, but I say that it is the beauty of wood when paint is removed and
the life of the wood and details of the grain can shine out. The wood is alive
again!, and finally seen as WOOD.
Jim:::I don't know where you are at, but it does no harm to present a warning.
If you don't need the warning yourself, there are others who do need the
warning, and we are partly doing this conversation for others. Because beauty
is especially integrative, I think it is part of many paths, but that is a side
comment.
The Surangama Sutra, the Blue Cliff Records reference I mentioned earlier, and
other literature, warn about how frequently people mistake something lower for
the ultimate "mental state". Notice the quotation marks around the worlds
"mental state". I don't mean what ordinary English would mean by "mental
state". The lower may be very good and an advanced stage on the path, but
someone shouldn't think that he or she is there yet. Of course, normally,
everyone has to figure out for him or herself whether or not she or he is just
at a wonderful state which nevertheless still isn't there yet.
Jim
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