Bill, I looked at the moon last night and didn't see you there! :-)
Edgar On Oct 25, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Bill! wrote: > Merle, > > I'm arguing for Edgar, for you and for everyone on this forum. > > Edgar's explanations are NOT the way to find Buddha Nature, and if he and you > or anyone else continues to believe they are you'll be going farther and > farther away. > > I will never accept this kind of advice or suggestions on this forum. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > > > > >  > >  forever arguing... > > try accepting ... ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >  merle > >  > > Bill, > > > > If you don't understand the path you'll never arrive at the moon. You'll > > end up somewhere else and think it's the moon. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:37 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > >  > > >Edgar, > > > > > >Then I do disagree! > > > > > >It's not the UNDERSTANDING and FOLLOWING the finger that leads to the > > >moon. It's GIVING UP your fruitless efforts of trying to understand an > > >follow the finger that results in complete resignation which THEN leads to > > >the moon. > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > >--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Bill, > > >> > > >> You continually over analyze and intellectualize what I'm saying and > > >> then reject your own over analysis and intellectualization. > > >> > > >> Just DIRECTLY EXPERIENCE what I'm saying for a change... > > >> > > >> The world of forms is the koan, the finger pointing at the moon. > > >> > > >> The finger is NOT the moon, but if you don't understand and follow the > > >> finger you'll never find the moon. > > >> > > >> Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Oct 24, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > >> > Edgar, > > >> > > > >> > I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence in your previous post. > > >> > > > >> > It's the preceding key statement that I've always rejected: > > >> > "Intellectual understanding is the koan you need to solve BEFORE you > > >> > can directly experience realization." There are times I put this down > > >> > to misunderstanding because of different terminology - and the way > > >> > you've phrased the statement above is another one of these times. What > > >> > you've stated MIGHT by agreeable with me, but then again it might not. > > >> > It all depends on what you mean. I've gone down this path with you > > >> > before, but when trying to explore just what you think the role of > > >> > intellect has in realizing Buddha Nature (like with my recent > > >> > 'Repeating Daily Question') you've either answered it in a way that > > >> > confirms my disagreement or refused to respond. > > >> > > > >> > Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse I will, as usual, tell you > > >> > EXACTLY what my position is: > > >> > > > >> > Intellect has absolutely NO ROLE in realizing Buddha Nature. In fact > > >> > intellect can act as a DETERRENT to realizing Buddha Nature. Our > > >> > intellect is the source of all illusion which OCCLUDES Buddha Nature > > >> > and and must be halted/paused/deferred BEFORE Buddha Nature can be > > >> > realized. > > >> > > > >> > Now, if this halting/pausing/deferring is what you mean by 'solving > > >> > the koan of the intellect' we do have a broad basis of agreement. > > >> > > > >> > If this is not what you mean by that, please tell me what you do mean. > > >> > > > >> > ...Bill! > > >> > > > >> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > No, you just never understood what I've been saying consistently.. > > >> > > > > >> > > Intellectual understanding is the koan you need to solve BEFORE you > > >> > > can directly experience realization. It is necessary to prepare > > >> > > yourself for a correct realization... > > >> > > > > >> > > Intellectual understanding is NOT realization in itself... > > >> > > > > >> > > Edgar > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Edgar, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > You say this all the time. The last time was saying something like > > >> > > > 'you must understand the difference between reality and illusion'. > > >> > > > That's what prompted my 'Daily Question' which you declined to > > >> > > > answer. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Bill, > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Funny, accusing Merle of supporting something I never said and > > >> > > > > don't believe.... > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Edgar > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Oct 24, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Merle, > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I believed you did not know this because of your MANY posts > > >> > > > > > recently supporting Edgar's continual assertions that > > >> > > > > > UNDERSTANDING is necessary for realizing Buddha Nature. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Â but of course BILL.... what makes you believe i did not > > >> > > > > > > know this?...merle > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Â > > >> > > > > > > Merle, > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Because Buddha Nature is not something you understand, it's > > >> > > > > > > something you experience...Bill! > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester > > >> > > > > > > <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÂÂ why not ?..merle > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÂÂ > > >> > > > > > > > Merle, > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yes. That's why I wrote it. > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Huxley's 'Attention! Attention! Here and Now Boys! Here > > >> > > > > > > > and Now Boys!' is the same thing as Joshu's 'The Oak Tree > > >> > > > > > > > in the Garden' and 'Mu'', Unmon's 'Dried Shit-Stick' > > >> > > > > > > > Tozan's 'Three Pounds of Flax' and my 'Just THIS!'. > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Understand? (...and you better not answer 'YES!!!!') > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester > > >> > > > > > > > <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ and is that not what the repeat as > > >> > > > > > > > > the mantra in the island novel?...merle > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ > > >> > > > > > > > > Merle, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Or, if you prefer, "Attention! Attention! Here and Now > > >> > > > > > > > > Boy! Here and Now!" > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" > > >> > > > > > > > > <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The latter, I think. I imagine it was fashioned in the > > >> > > > > > > > > > form of a flat blade, like a palette-knife, or putty > > >> > > > > > > > > > knife, probably from a broad thin piece of > > >> > > > > > > > > > architectural bamboo. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > It must have been a common enough accessory in use at > > >> > > > > > > > > > the Ch'an monasteries, some of which housed hundreds > > >> > > > > > > > > > of monks or nuns, and the latrines must have been > > >> > > > > > > > > > extensive. And so the Master made use of the stick as > > >> > > > > > > > > > an example, in his teaching. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Others might have answered, "The Oak Tree in the court > > >> > > > > > > > > > yard" (but at some of the monasteries on high > > >> > > > > > > > > > mountains, Oaks did not grow, but mostly Pines > > >> > > > > > > > > > did/do). Bamboo could be brought up from below, for > > >> > > > > > > > > > building, and for implements. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Still others might have answered, "Just THIS!". > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The Master was very compassionate, bringing the > > >> > > > > > > > > > student back into the "here and now" with what he said > > >> > > > > > > > > > and how he said it. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > huh??????? wiping what.... the toilet or the arse?.. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > so it's an arse wiping stick? > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
