Merle, I stopped adding the ! after Bill also. To me it smacks of self importance for a personal self Bill denies exists.. Though it very obviously does exist.
Edgar On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > bill!.. > so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!... > by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful.. > means i have to do shift.....that's not my style.. > so it will have to be billllllllll...... > hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh? > billllllllllllllllllll..................... > so you have told me over and over again we must all have instructions.. > well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name... > i am the teacher... > how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!... > don't you have faith in me?.. > don't trust me? > sensual ..mmmm interesting.. > i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed > instructions > that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses... > as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?.. > so what are we left with mind!... > do you hate your mind? > somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not be > tolerated!.. > look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one still > experience zen? > merle > > > Bill, > > There is no "transmission" of Zen from person to person. There is only > pointing. Realization does NOT come from any other person. It comes from > directly confronting reality and seeing it as it actually is... > > Edgar > > > > On Oct 27, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Bill! wrote: > >> >> Merle, >> >> We stress 'instructions' here because this is a forum dedicated to Zen >> Buddhism. Zen Buddhism has a history of being perpetuated by a very >> intimate, one-to-one teacher/student relationship which results in a >> mind-to-mind transmission. The first example of that I have ever heard of is >> Siddhartha's mind-to-mind transmission (realization of Buddha Nature) to >> Mahakashapa at Vulture Peak. >> >> 'Sensual' means 'having to do with the senses'. It's from the same root as >> is 'sentient' as in 'all sentient beings have Buddha Nature'. >> Our discriminating mind divides the senses into 5 categories: sight, >> hearing, smell, taste and feel. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> > >> > bill!..you are obsessed with instructions from some one else: why? because >> > that is the way you did this..so we all flow with you? >> >  why a teacher?.... are we not all teachers unto to ourselves?... >> >  please explain sensual.... >> > merle >> >  >> > Edgar, Merle and Joe, >> > >> > Of course you can experience Buddha Nature 'on your own'. You could build >> > a Space Shuttle 'on your own', by trial and error, or you could take >> > advantage of the teachings and advice of those who have already built one. >> > Both Siddhartha and Jesus (according to the accounts we have)were >> > precocious children and yet even they struggled their whole life to >> > realize what we (or at least I) now call 'Buddha Nature'. >> > >> > Siddhartha is said to have first recognized life was suffering and wanted >> > to discover how to alleviate it. He first tried studying (rationality), >> > then scriptures (faith), then asceticism (body) and found no relief. He >> > finally swore to just sit under a tree until he discovered who to >> > alleviate suffering, and not to get up until he did - or died. >> > >> > As the story goes on the 40th morning he saw the light from the a star as >> > it rose above the horizon just before daybreak. It was then he realized >> > what I now call 'Buddha Nature'. >> > >> > Seeing the light was a sensual experience - not an understanding or an act >> > of faith. >> > >> > Anyone can do this by themselves as Siddhartha did or Jesus - but it is >> > much more likely you will be able to do this with the guidance of a >> > teacher. >> > >> > ...Bill! >> > >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >  joe..what edgar says makes sense...who was buddha's teacher? who was >> > > christ's teacher?..merle >> > > >> > > >> > >  >> > > Joe, >> > > >> > > You claim that "you cannot do the work to awaken on your own". >> > > >> > > O really, then who pray tell was Buddha's teacher since he had no human >> > > teacher? >> > > >> > > Give up? >> > > >> > > Answer. It was reality as I've been trying to explain to you. >> > > >> > > I prove my point... >> > > >> > > Edgar >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Joe wrote: >> > > >> > >  >> > > >Edgar, >> > > > >> > > >No, Edgar, it is not BS. >> > > > >> > > >(If you need someone to attack, try Paintball). >> > > > >> > > >A lot of self-enlightened fools traipse the streets of the world. They >> > > >are not awake. Are you one? No, I think you worked with a teacher, once. >> > > > >> > > >The methods of Zen are Medicine, and the Teacher is Medicine, too. So >> > > >is a Sangha. >> > > > >> > > >You cannot do the work to awaken on your own. The fact that you think >> > > >it is on "your" own is what keeps you in the small bottle, and prevents >> > > >You from flowing out to expand to the walls of the infinite aquarium. >> > > > >> > > >Take the medicine; awaken; be well; and *then* your last line is >> > > >finally true. Not before. >> > > > >> > > >Of course not everybody wants to or can do that, even if it means never >> > > >awakening. But when these fools represent themselves as masters and >> > > >demean or deprecate Practice, they are not to be suffered gladly, nor >> > > >suffered at all. >> > > > >> > > >Yes, it's everywhere. So are the unoxidizable tools of awakening, >> > > >waiting in the shed, available to you and to everyone if you want to >> > > >see a change. >> > > > >> > > >Go for it! >> > > > >> > > >Or maybe you've done this at some time, and still remember it. >> > > > >> > > >--Joe >> > > > >> > > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Joe, >> > > >> >> > > >> This is BS. >> > > >> [snip] >> > > >> Zen is not to be found in a teacher or monastery. It's everywhere >> > > >> right in front of your nose.. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >
