Merle,

Yes, a grocery item.  One of those generic ones that are labeled 'Nothing 
Special - Suitable for Everyday Use'...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
>  edgar..i came to the realisation that Billlllllllllllll was  a "grocery 
> item"...and hence this was the bar code... :-
> merle
>   
> Merle,
> 
> I stopped adding the ! after Bill also. To me it smacks of self importance 
> for a personal self Bill denies exists.. Though it very obviously does exist.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> 
>   
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >bill!..
> >so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!...
> >by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful..
> >means i have to do shift.....that's not my style..
> >so it will have to be billllllllll......
> > hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh?
> > billllllllllllllllllll.....................
> > so you have told me over and over again we must all have instructions..
> >well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name...
> >i am the teacher...
> >how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!...
> > don't you have faith in me?..
> >don't trust me?
> >sensual ..mmmm interesting..
> >i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed 
> >instructions 
> >that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses... 
> >as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?..
> >so what are we left with mind!...
> >do you hate your mind?
> > somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not be 
> >tolerated!..
> >look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one still 
> >experience zen?
> > merle
> >
> >
> >  
> >Bill,
> >
> >
> >There is no "transmission" of Zen from person to person. There is only 
> >pointing. Realization does NOT come from any other person. It comes from 
> >directly confronting reality and seeing it as it actually is...
> >
> >
> >Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Oct 27, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Bill! wrote:
> >
> >  
> >>Merle,
> >>
> >>We stress 'instructions' here because this is a forum dedicated to Zen 
> >>Buddhism.  Zen Buddhism has a history of being perpetuated by a very 
> >>intimate, one-to-one teacher/student relationship which results in a 
> >>mind-to-mind transmission.  The first example of that I have ever heard of 
> >>is Siddhartha's mind-to-mind transmission (realization of Buddha Nature) to 
> >>Mahakashapa at Vulture Peak. 
> >>
> >>'Sensual' means 'having to do with the senses'.  It's from the same root as 
> >>is 'sentient' as in 'all sentient beings have Buddha Nature'. 
> >>Our discriminating mind divides the senses into 5 categories: sight, 
> >>hearing, smell, taste and feel.
> >>
> >>...Bill! 
> >>
> >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> bill!..you are obsessed with instructions from some one else: why? 
> >>> because that is the way you did this..so we all flow with you?
> >>>  why a teacher?.... are we not all teachers unto to ourselves?...
> >>>  please explain sensual....
> >>> merle
> >>>   
> >>> Edgar, Merle and Joe,
> >>> 
> >>> Of course you can experience Buddha Nature 'on your own'.  You could 
> >>> build a Space Shuttle 'on your own', by trial and error, or you could 
> >>> take advantage of the teachings and advice of those who have already 
> >>> built one.  Both Siddhartha and Jesus (according to the accounts we 
> >>> have)were precocious children and yet even they struggled their whole 
> >>> life to realize what we (or at least I) now call 'Buddha Nature'.
> >>> 
> >>> Siddhartha is said to have first recognized life was suffering and wanted 
> >>> to discover how to alleviate it. He first tried studying (rationality), 
> >>> then scriptures (faith), then asceticism (body) and found no relief.  He 
> >>> finally swore to just sit under a tree until he discovered who to 
> >>> alleviate suffering, and not to get up until he did - or died.
> >>> 
> >>> As the story goes on the 40th morning he saw the light from the a star as 
> >>> it rose above the horizon just before daybreak.  It was then he realized 
> >>> what I now call 'Buddha Nature'.
> >>> 
> >>> Seeing the light was a sensual experience - not an understanding or an 
> >>> act of faith.
> >>> 
> >>> Anyone can do this by themselves as Siddhartha did or Jesus - but it is 
> >>> much more likely you will be able to do this with the guidance of a 
> >>> teacher.
> >>> 
> >>> ...Bill! 
> >>> 
> >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> >  joe..what edgar says makes sense...who was buddha's teacher? 
> >>> > who was christ's teacher?..merle
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> >   
> >>> > Joe,
> >>> > 
> >>> > You claim that "you cannot do the work to awaken on your own".
> >>> > 
> >>> > O really, then who pray tell was Buddha's teacher since he had no human 
> >>> > teacher?
> >>> > 
> >>> > Give up?
> >>> > 
> >>> > Answer. It was reality as I've been trying to explain to you.
> >>> > 
> >>> > I prove my point...
> >>> > 
> >>> > Edgar
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Joe wrote:
> >>> > 
> >>> >   
> >>> > >Edgar,
> >>> > >
> >>> > >No, Edgar, it is not BS.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >(If you need someone to attack, try Paintball).
> >>> > >
> >>> > >A lot of self-enlightened fools traipse the streets of the world.  
> >>> > >They are not awake.  Are you one?  No, I think you worked with a 
> >>> > >teacher, once.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >The methods of Zen are Medicine, and the Teacher is Medicine, too.  So 
> >>> > >is a Sangha.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >You cannot do the work to awaken on your own.  The fact that you think 
> >>> > >it is on "your" own is what keeps you in the small bottle, and 
> >>> > >prevents You from flowing out to expand to the walls of the infinite 
> >>> > >aquarium.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Take the medicine; awaken; be well; and *then* your last line is 
> >>> > >finally true.  Not before.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Of course not everybody wants to or can do that, even if it means 
> >>> > >never awakening.  But when these fools represent themselves as masters 
> >>> > >and demean or deprecate Practice, they are not to be suffered gladly, 
> >>> > >nor suffered at all.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Yes, it's everywhere.  So are the unoxidizable tools of awakening, 
> >>> > >waiting in the shed, available to you and to everyone if you want to 
> >>> > >see a change.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Go for it!
> >>> > >
> >>> > >Or maybe you've done this at some time, and still remember it.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >--Joe
> >>> > >
> >>> > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Joe,
> >>> > >> 
> >>> > >> This is BS.
> >>> > >> [snip]
> >>> > >> Zen is not to be found in a teacher or monastery. It's everywhere 
> >>> > >> right in front of your nose..
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




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