Merle, Yes, a grocery item. One of those generic ones that are labeled 'Nothing Special - Suitable for Everyday Use'...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > >  edgar..i came to the realisation that Billlllllllllllll was  a "grocery > item"...and hence this was the bar code... :- > merle >  > Merle, > > I stopped adding the ! after Bill also. To me it smacks of self importance > for a personal self Bill denies exists.. Though it very obviously does exist. > > Edgar > > > > > On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > >  > > > > > > > > > >bill!.. > >so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!... > >by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful.. > >means i have to do shift.....that's not my style.. > >so it will have to be billllllllll...... > > hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh? > > billllllllllllllllllll..................... > > so you have told me over and over again we must all have instructions.. > >well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name... > >i am the teacher... > >how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!... > > don't you have faith in me?.. > >don't trust me? > >sensual ..mmmm interesting.. > >i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed > >instructions > >that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses... > >as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?.. > >so what are we left with mind!... > >do you hate your mind? > > somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not be > >tolerated!.. > >look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one still > >experience zen? > > merle > > > > > > > >Bill, > > > > > >There is no "transmission" of Zen from person to person. There is only > >pointing. Realization does NOT come from any other person. It comes from > >directly confronting reality and seeing it as it actually is... > > > > > >Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Oct 27, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > >>Merle, > >> > >>We stress 'instructions' here because this is a forum dedicated to Zen > >>Buddhism. Zen Buddhism has a history of being perpetuated by a very > >>intimate, one-to-one teacher/student relationship which results in a > >>mind-to-mind transmission. The first example of that I have ever heard of > >>is Siddhartha's mind-to-mind transmission (realization of Buddha Nature) to > >>Mahakashapa at Vulture Peak. > >> > >>'Sensual' means 'having to do with the senses'. It's from the same root as > >>is 'sentient' as in 'all sentient beings have Buddha Nature'. > >>Our discriminating mind divides the senses into 5 categories: sight, > >>hearing, smell, taste and feel. > >> > >>...Bill! > >> > >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > >>> > >>> bill!..you are obsessed with instructions from some one else: why? > >>> because that is the way you did this..so we all flow with you? > >>> àwhy a teacher?.... are we not all teachers unto to ourselves?... > >>> àplease explain sensual.... > >>> merle > >>> à> >>> Edgar, Merle and Joe, > >>> > >>> Of course you can experience Buddha Nature 'on your own'. You could > >>> build a Space Shuttle 'on your own', by trial and error, or you could > >>> take advantage of the teachings and advice of those who have already > >>> built one. Both Siddhartha and Jesus (according to the accounts we > >>> have)were precocious children and yet even they struggled their whole > >>> life to realize what we (or at least I) now call 'Buddha Nature'. > >>> > >>> Siddhartha is said to have first recognized life was suffering and wanted > >>> to discover how to alleviate it. He first tried studying (rationality), > >>> then scriptures (faith), then asceticism (body) and found no relief. He > >>> finally swore to just sit under a tree until he discovered who to > >>> alleviate suffering, and not to get up until he did - or died. > >>> > >>> As the story goes on the 40th morning he saw the light from the a star as > >>> it rose above the horizon just before daybreak. It was then he realized > >>> what I now call 'Buddha Nature'. > >>> > >>> Seeing the light was a sensual experience - not an understanding or an > >>> act of faith. > >>> > >>> Anyone can do this by themselves as Siddhartha did or Jesus - but it is > >>> much more likely you will be able to do this with the guidance of a > >>> teacher. > >>> > >>> ...Bill! > >>> > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Ãâàjoe..what edgar says makes sense...who was buddha's teacher? > >>> > who was christ's teacher?..merle > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Ãâà> >>> > Joe, > >>> > > >>> > You claim that "you cannot do the work to awaken on your own". > >>> > > >>> > O really, then who pray tell was Buddha's teacher since he had no human > >>> > teacher? > >>> > > >>> > Give up? > >>> > > >>> > Answer. It was reality as I've been trying to explain to you. > >>> > > >>> > I prove my point... > >>> > > >>> > Edgar > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Joe wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Ãâà> >>> > >Edgar, > >>> > > > >>> > >No, Edgar, it is not BS. > >>> > > > >>> > >(If you need someone to attack, try Paintball). > >>> > > > >>> > >A lot of self-enlightened fools traipse the streets of the world. > >>> > >They are not awake. Are you one? No, I think you worked with a > >>> > >teacher, once. > >>> > > > >>> > >The methods of Zen are Medicine, and the Teacher is Medicine, too. So > >>> > >is a Sangha. > >>> > > > >>> > >You cannot do the work to awaken on your own. The fact that you think > >>> > >it is on "your" own is what keeps you in the small bottle, and > >>> > >prevents You from flowing out to expand to the walls of the infinite > >>> > >aquarium. > >>> > > > >>> > >Take the medicine; awaken; be well; and *then* your last line is > >>> > >finally true. Not before. > >>> > > > >>> > >Of course not everybody wants to or can do that, even if it means > >>> > >never awakening. But when these fools represent themselves as masters > >>> > >and demean or deprecate Practice, they are not to be suffered gladly, > >>> > >nor suffered at all. > >>> > > > >>> > >Yes, it's everywhere. So are the unoxidizable tools of awakening, > >>> > >waiting in the shed, available to you and to everyone if you want to > >>> > >see a change. > >>> > > > >>> > >Go for it! > >>> > > > >>> > >Or maybe you've done this at some time, and still remember it. > >>> > > > >>> > >--Joe > >>> > > > >>> > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Joe, > >>> > >> > >>> > >> This is BS. > >>> > >> [snip] > >>> > >> Zen is not to be found in a teacher or monastery. It's everywhere > >>> > >> right in front of your nose.. > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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