edgar..i came to the realisation that Billlllllllllllll was a "grocery
item"...and hence this was the bar code... :-
merle
Merle,
I stopped adding the ! after Bill also. To me it smacks of self importance for
a personal self Bill denies exists.. Though it very obviously does exist.
Edgar
On Oct 27, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>
>
>
>
>bill!..
>so what is it exactly what you are attempting to tell me Bill!...
>by the way having to add an exclamation mark is very painful..
>means i have to do shift.....that's not my style..
>so it will have to be billllllllll......
> hey looks like a bar code on the grocery item eh?
> billllllllllllllllllll.....................
> so you have told me over and over again we must all have instructions..
>well hallo billlllllllllllllll with the bar code name...
>i am the teacher...
>how many times have i hinted at this and you do not believe me!...
> don't you have faith in me?..
>don't trust me?
>sensual ..mmmm interesting..
>i was of the understanding through realisation and your most power packed
>instructions
>that we must under all costs detach ourselves from the senses...
>as they are attachments and can hinder realisation?..
>so what are we left with mind!...
>do you hate your mind?
> somewhere along the track you feel mind is a hinderance and must not be
>tolerated!..
>look at this way if one looses one's mind through an illness can one still
>experience zen?
> merle
>
>
>
>Bill,
>
>
>There is no "transmission" of Zen from person to person. There is only
>pointing. Realization does NOT come from any other person. It comes from
>directly confronting reality and seeing it as it actually is...
>
>
>Edgar
>
>
>
>
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>
>On Oct 27, 2012, at 1:21 AM, Bill! wrote:
>
>
>>Merle,
>>
>>We stress 'instructions' here because this is a forum dedicated to Zen
>>Buddhism. Zen Buddhism has a history of being perpetuated by a very
>>intimate, one-to-one teacher/student relationship which results in a
>>mind-to-mind transmission. The first example of that I have ever heard of is
>>Siddhartha's mind-to-mind transmission (realization of Buddha Nature) to
>>Mahakashapa at Vulture Peak.
>>
>>'Sensual' means 'having to do with the senses'. It's from the same root as
>>is 'sentient' as in 'all sentient beings have Buddha Nature'.
>>Our discriminating mind divides the senses into 5 categories: sight, hearing,
>>smell, taste and feel.
>>
>>...Bill!
>>
>>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> bill!..you are obsessed with instructions from some one else: why? because
>>> that is the way you did this..so we all flow with you?
>>> Â why a teacher?.... are we not all teachers unto to ourselves?...
>>> Â please explain sensual....
>>> merle
>>> Â
>>> Edgar, Merle and Joe,
>>>
>>> Of course you can experience Buddha Nature 'on your own'. You could build
>>> a Space Shuttle 'on your own', by trial and error, or you could take
>>> advantage of the teachings and advice of those who have already built one.
>>> Both Siddhartha and Jesus (according to the accounts we have)were
>>> precocious children and yet even they struggled their whole life to realize
>>> what we (or at least I) now call 'Buddha Nature'.
>>>
>>> Siddhartha is said to have first recognized life was suffering and wanted
>>> to discover how to alleviate it. He first tried studying (rationality),
>>> then scriptures (faith), then asceticism (body) and found no relief. He
>>> finally swore to just sit under a tree until he discovered who to alleviate
>>> suffering, and not to get up until he did - or died.
>>>
>>> As the story goes on the 40th morning he saw the light from the a star as
>>> it rose above the horizon just before daybreak. It was then he realized
>>> what I now call 'Buddha Nature'.
>>>
>>> Seeing the light was a sensual experience - not an understanding or an act
>>> of faith.
>>>
>>> Anyone can do this by themselves as Siddhartha did or Jesus - but it is
>>> much more likely you will be able to do this with the guidance of a teacher.
>>>
>>> ...Bill!
>>>
>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  joe..what edgar says makes sense...who was buddha's teacher? who was
>>> > christ's teacher?..merle
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ÂÂ
>>> > Joe,
>>> >
>>> > You claim that "you cannot do the work to awaken on your own".
>>> >
>>> > O really, then who pray tell was Buddha's teacher since he had no human
>>> > teacher?
>>> >
>>> > Give up?
>>> >
>>> > Answer. It was reality as I've been trying to explain to you.
>>> >
>>> > I prove my point...
>>> >
>>> > Edgar
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Oct 26, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Joe wrote:
>>> >
>>> > ÂÂ
>>> > >Edgar,
>>> > >
>>> > >No, Edgar, it is not BS.
>>> > >
>>> > >(If you need someone to attack, try Paintball).
>>> > >
>>> > >A lot of self-enlightened fools traipse the streets of the world. They
>>> > >are not awake. Are you one? No, I think you worked with a teacher,
>>> > >once.
>>> > >
>>> > >The methods of Zen are Medicine, and the Teacher is Medicine, too. So
>>> > >is a Sangha.
>>> > >
>>> > >You cannot do the work to awaken on your own. The fact that you think
>>> > >it is on "your" own is what keeps you in the small bottle, and prevents
>>> > >You from flowing out to expand to the walls of the infinite aquarium.
>>> > >
>>> > >Take the medicine; awaken; be well; and *then* your last line is finally
>>> > >true. Not before.
>>> > >
>>> > >Of course not everybody wants to or can do that, even if it means never
>>> > >awakening. But when these fools represent themselves as masters and
>>> > >demean or deprecate Practice, they are not to be suffered gladly, nor
>>> > >suffered at all.
>>> > >
>>> > >Yes, it's everywhere. So are the unoxidizable tools of awakening,
>>> > >waiting in the shed, available to you and to everyone if you want to see
>>> > >a change.
>>> > >
>>> > >Go for it!
>>> > >
>>> > >Or maybe you've done this at some time, and still remember it.
>>> > >
>>> > >--Joe
>>> > >
>>> > >> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Joe,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> This is BS.
>>> > >> [snip]
>>> > >> Zen is not to be found in a teacher or monastery. It's everywhere
>>> > >> right in front of your nose..
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
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