Mike,

Sure, of course. It's quite believable he retired and lived on a simple diet 
for 6 years.

It's the myth of yam leaves and rice that is the obvious delusion and that 
sullies his legacy....


Note also "he studied Chan extensively, including ... at a university."

So he was obviously using HIS INTELLECT AND MIND to study Zen which is an 
agreement with my position that this is a necessary aspect of the way contrary 
to the position some on this group take...


And thanks for this calm and informative post with no name calling!
:-)

EDgar




On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:21 AM, mike brown wrote:

> 
> Edgar,
> 
> I've just done some research on Sheng-Yen and found some interesting points. 
> He studied Chan extensively, including a degree at a Japanese university in 
> order to spread the Dharma around the world. Near death, he declined a kidney 
> transplant stating that it should go to some one younger. After his death, 
> there were no monuments etc. erected as per his wishes, settling instead for 
> a simple Buddhist ceremony. I also found many articles stating that he did a 
> 6 year solitary retreat, but not one of them mentions that he survived solely 
> on yam leaves and rice. If there was a chapter on them in his autobiography, 
> as Joe states, then I would surmise that his point is about simplicity of 
> diet as a metaphor for living life and *not* some claim to super-normal 
> powers. It's not difficult for anyone without an agenda to deduce what kind 
> of man Sheng-Yen was. 
> You should take a 'leaf' out his teachings.
> 
> Mike
> 
> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected] 
> Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:53
> Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit
> 
>  
> Mike,
> 
> And if he didn't but claimed he did?
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:44 AM, mike brown wrote:
> 
>>  
>> 
>> Edgar,
>> 
>> Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm more concerned with other things - like 
>> how his students conduct themselves.
>> 
>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected] 
>> Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:35
>> Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit
>> 
>>  
>> Mike,
>> 
>> What's your answer and why are you afraid to tell us?
>> 
>> EDgar
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:34 AM, mike brown wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> >Do you believe any human being could subsist only on yam leaves and rice 
>>> >for 6 years or do you agree with me it's simply impossible?
>>> 
>>> And the new Donald Trump..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>
>>> To: [email protected] 
>>> Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:07
>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Merle,
>>> 
>>> OK, please answer a simple question and we will see. :-)
>>> 
>>> Do you believe any human being could subsist only on yam leaves and rice 
>>> for 6 years or do you agree with me it's simply impossible?
>>> 
>>> The fate of your immortal soul and entry into the Buddhahood realm rests on 
>>> a correct and honest answer to this simple question!
>>> :-)
>>> 
>>> I challenge everyone on this group who is at all interested in the truth 
>>> and who understands that belief in falsehood is illusion and thus that 
>>> truth is essential to realization to give us THEIR answer to this question.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Edgar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 22, 2012, at 1:44 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  edgar..what do you take me for?..a fool..merle
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Merle,
>>>> 
>>>> Get real and use your brain Merle! It's not the number of calories but the 
>>>> necessary nutrients for life are missing.
>>>> 
>>>> Hot water? Well I like that myself (I usually add several spices and 
>>>> sometimes lemon juice) but I hope you don't think anyone can subsist on it?
>>>> 
>>>> Edgar
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 5:22 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  because he did no heavy labour all day he needed less food...
>>>>>  how long did he live?...
>>>>> plain hot water is great!... 
>>>>> does not believe in the principles of nutrition  and you just ran with 
>>>>> that joe?..
>>>>> what?...
>>>>> where is your zen spirit?.
>>>>> .merle
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Anyone who tries to convince you he lived on wild yam leaves and rice for 
>>>>> 6 years begins to sound like the oriental typical guru putting one over 
>>>>> on gullible disciples.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How much did you pay him total for 'enlightening' you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Edgar
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 1:45 PM, Joe wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Edgar,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Negative.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I suggest a reading of Ch'an Master Sheng's autobiography. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When he taught us, he would often urge us to eat "properly" in our daily 
>>>>>> lives as we practice. But he added that he "does not believe in the 
>>>>>> principles of nutrition". That was always very interesting to me, but I 
>>>>>> never questioned him in detail about what he believed (or followed) 
>>>>>> instead.  I was already a vegetarian before I met him.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the veracity of his story of his cultivating the "Taiwan wild 
>>>>>> mountain potato", I had no reason to doubt him. He mentioned that this 
>>>>>> potato is different from what we call potatoes in the West. And I 
>>>>>> suspect it is not related to our Solanaceous plants, which I think are 
>>>>>> only indigenous to S. Amer., and not Asia. So the leaves of his plants 
>>>>>> may have been differently nutritious, indeed!, compared with those of 
>>>>>> our Deadly Nightshades.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In fact, it is a type of Yam.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I must assume that he also had Tea; maybe he did not mention it because 
>>>>>> it's like an Englishman taking tea "for granted" as a commodity, except 
>>>>>> more so!, for a Chinese! ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But, ...he taught us on Retreat to drink plain hot water, and we had 
>>>>>> urns of it: I personally called this "Sheng Yen Tea". So, maybe he did 
>>>>>> not have any tea at all during his 6-year retreat. It's possible that he 
>>>>>> may have found Ginseng root on the mountain, however, too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> He mentions the Yam potato leaves several times in his auto-bio, and in 
>>>>>> fact, there is an entire chapter (Chapt. 11) there, called "Wild Potato 
>>>>>> Leaves"... .
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For your reading, here is the reference to Sheng Yen's best-known 
>>>>>> autobiography in English. The book is quite clear about his diet on the 
>>>>>> mountain:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sheng Yen; FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW; THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A CHINESE 
>>>>>> BUDDHIST MONK, 2008, Doubleday.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can also see the Amazon page:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Footprints-Snow-Autobiography-Chinese-Buddhist/dp/B003JTHRT6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1353436592&sr=8-3&keywords=footprints+in+the+snow
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --Joe
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > I suggest you use the same investigative intelligence you used to 
>>>>>> > debunk the hurricane Sandy photos to debunk your teacher's story.
>>>>>> > 
>>>>>> > No human being could live on only wild potato leaves and rice for 6 
>>>>>> > years. That's quite obvious.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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