Edgar, What myth? As I said, I couldn't find one article relating to his diet whilst on retreat. Joe mentioned it in passing, but you seem to be the only one running with it.
I think you confuse intellect with wisdom. Yes, if you're going to be a teacher of the Dharma, then it would be a good idea to study and learn the history, traditions, philosophy and literature etc of that which you profess to teach, but that doesn't mean you have to do this as a necessary step "on the way" to be enlightened.Zen literature is full of farmers, labourers and house-wives who were enlightened. Hui-neng was even illiterate. ________________________________ From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 14:35 Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit Mike, Sure, of course. It's quite believable he retired and lived on a simple diet for 6 years. It's the myth of yam leaves and rice that is the obvious delusion and that sullies his legacy.... Note also "he studied Chan extensively, including ... at a university." So he was obviously using HIS INTELLECT AND MIND to study Zen which is an agreement with my position that this is a necessary aspect of the way contrary to the position some on this group take... And thanks for this calm and informative post with no name calling! :-) EDgar On Nov 22, 2012, at 9:21 AM, mike brown wrote: > > >Edgar, > > >I've just done some research on Sheng-Yen and found some interesting points. >He studied Chan extensively, including a degree at a Japanese university in >order to spread the Dharma around the world. Near death, he declined a kidney >transplant stating that it should go to some one younger. After his death, >there were no monuments etc. erected as per his wishes, settling instead for a >simple Buddhist ceremony. I also found many articles stating that he did a 6 >year solitary retreat, but not one of them mentions that he survived solely on >yam leaves and rice. If there was a chapter on them in his autobiography, as >Joe states, then I would surmise that his point is about simplicity of diet as >a metaphor for living life and *not* some claim to super-normal powers. It's >not difficult for anyone without an agenda to deduce what kind of man >Sheng-Yen was. >You should take a 'leaf' out his teachings. > > >Mike > > > > >________________________________ > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:53 >Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit > > > >Mike, > > >And if he didn't but claimed he did? > > >Edgar > > > > >On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:44 AM, mike brown wrote: > > >> >> >>Edgar, >> >> >>Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm more concerned with other things - like >>how his students conduct themselves. >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >>To: [email protected] >>Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:35 >>Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit >> >> >> >>Mike, >> >> >>What's your answer and why are you afraid to tell us? >> >> >>EDgar >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On Nov 22, 2012, at 8:34 AM, mike brown wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>>>Do you believe any human being could subsist only on yam leaves and rice >>>>for 6 years or do you agree with me it's simply impossible? >>> >>>And the new Donald Trump.. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2012, 13:07 >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] the zen spirit >>> >>> >>> >>>Merle, >>> >>> >>>OK, please answer a simple question and we will see. :-) >>> >>> >>>Do you believe any human being could subsist only on yam leaves and rice for >>>6 years or do you agree with me it's simply impossible? >>> >>> >>>The fate of your immortal soul and entry into the Buddhahood realm rests on >>>a correct and honest answer to this simple question! >>>:-) >>> >>> >>>I challenge everyone on this group who is at all interested in the truth and >>>who understands that belief in falsehood is illusion and thus that truth is >>>essential to realization to give us THEIR answer to this question. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Nov 22, 2012, at 1:44 AM, Merle Lester wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> edgar..what do you take me for?..a fool..merle >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Merle, >>>> >>>> >>>>Get real and use your brain Merle! It's not the number of calories but the >>>>necessary nutrients for life are missing. >>>> >>>> >>>>Hot water? Well I like that myself (I usually add several spices and >>>>sometimes lemon juice) but I hope you don't think anyone can subsist on it? >>>> >>>> >>>>Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Nov 20, 2012, at 5:22 PM, Merle Lester wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> because he did no heavy labour all day he needed less food... >>>>> how long did he live?... >>>>>plain hot water is great!... >>>>>does not believe in the principles of nutrition and you just ran with >>>>>that joe?.. >>>>>what?... >>>>>where is your zen spirit?. >>>>>.merle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Anyone who tries to convince you he lived on wild yam leaves and rice for >>>>>6 years begins to sound like the oriental typical guru putting one over on >>>>>gullible disciples. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>How much did you pay him total for 'enlightening' you? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Edgar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Nov 20, 2012, at 1:45 PM, Joe wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Edgar, >>>>>> >>>>>>Negative. >>>>>> >>>>>>I suggest a reading of Ch'an Master Sheng's autobiography. >>>>>> >>>>>>When he taught us, he would often urge us to eat "properly" in our daily >>>>>>lives as we practice. But he added that he "does not believe in the >>>>>>principles of nutrition". That was always very interesting to me, but I >>>>>>never questioned him in detail about what he believed (or followed) >>>>>>instead. I was already a vegetarian before I met him. >>>>>> >>>>>>On the veracity of his story of his cultivating the "Taiwan wild mountain >>>>>>potato", I had no reason to doubt him. He mentioned that this potato is >>>>>>different from what we call potatoes in the West. And I suspect it is >>>>>>not related to our Solanaceous plants, which I think are only indigenous >>>>>>to S. Amer., and not Asia. So the leaves of his plants may have been >>>>>>differently nutritious, indeed!, compared with those of our Deadly >>>>>>Nightshades. >>>>>> >>>>>>In fact, it is a type of Yam. >>>>>> >>>>>>I must assume that he also had Tea; maybe he did not mention it because >>>>>>it's like an Englishman taking tea "for granted" as a commodity, except >>>>>>more so!, for a Chinese! ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>>But, ...he taught us on Retreat to drink plain hot water, and we had urns >>>>>>of it: I personally called this "Sheng Yen Tea". So, maybe he did not >>>>>>have any tea at all during his 6-year retreat. It's possible that he may >>>>>>have found Ginseng root on the mountain, however, too. >>>>>> >>>>>>He mentions the Yam potato leaves several times in his auto-bio, and in >>>>>>fact, there is an entire chapter (Chapt. 11) there, called "Wild Potato >>>>>>Leaves"... . >>>>>> >>>>>>For your reading, here is the reference to Sheng Yen's best-known >>>>>>autobiography in English. The book is quite clear about his diet on the >>>>>>mountain: >>>>>> >>>>>>Sheng Yen; FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW; THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A CHINESE >>>>>>BUDDHIST MONK, 2008, Doubleday. >>>>>> >>>>>>You can also see the Amazon page: >>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.amazon.com/Footprints-Snow-Autobiography-Chinese-Buddhist/dp/B003JTHRT6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1353436592&sr=8-3&keywords=footprints+in+the+snow >>>>>> >>>>>>Best, >>>>>> >>>>>>--Joe >>>>>> >>>>>>> Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suggest you use the same investigative intelligence you used to >>>>>>> debunk the hurricane Sandy photos to debunk your teacher's story. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No human being could live on only wild potato leaves and rice for 6 >>>>>>> years. That's quite obvious. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
