Thanks, --Chris [email protected] +1-301-270-6524
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Joe, > > I disagree and your view is certainly at odds with Buddhist tradition. > > The traditional view is that the enlightened being sacrifices some of what > he has attained to return to the world to help other beings reach > enlightenment and thus transcend suffering. He does it FOR other beings, > not FOR himself. > > What kind of tradition are you talking about? There is no self/other distinction traditionally! At any actual Zen center I've visited, the tradtions are a tad different. You do not ring the bell for others! You do not ring it for yourself! Just bell/ringing -- blood flowing again. > However as I just said I do agree that the best way to help other beings > is to manifest one's own realization as an example. > "One's own" next to "realization"! What a hoot. > > But that should NOT selfishly be thought of as doing it FOR ONESELF. One > manifests realization back into reality to bring realization TO reality. > No need for thinking - the hand fluffs the pillow for the head. The tasks for the Boddhisattva are not to be a glowing example - it is to bestow bliss boundlessly - opening a door hear, picking up trash there, listening to a sad person there, celebrating with a happy person there, being an example to a faltering person here, saying yes to this that and the other. Life is full of stuff to do wholeheartedly, things are realized fine - just dance, life does not need "your example" but your presence! God's blood, what do they teach in the schools these days! > > The process of realization can be thought of as the entire universe > achieving realization of its inherent Buddha Nature piece by piece as being > after being achieves realization and manifests it back to the rest of the > universe. > Another good laugh - "pieces" and "realization"! > Edgar > > &nb sp; > > On Nov 28, 2012, at 2:40 AM, Joe wrote: > > > > RAF, > > Howdy from Arizona. > > The Bodhisattva vows are for ONESELF, not for all beings. That's important. > > One vows to oneself to save all beings, because, when we awaken, we > realize that this is already the case, already done. So, vow fulfilled. > > The vow is a skilful means that one puts on oneself, skilfully. It is also > a yoke. Thus, a Yoga. Really, it's very practical. Nothing to eschew, > because it is not a promise. It is something that is fulfilled > automatically when you wake up. But there I go spilling the beans. > > There's nothing wrong with the Bodhisattva vows; the only error is in > preconceptions. It's Mister Dubious who is dubious. The vows are yours, not > someone else's, and no one, nor anything else, holds you to them. > > But it helps to make them. I mean, to make them helps us to wake up. If > you begin this or have begun this, especially in a formal context with > teacher and sangha, in the midst of STRONG practice, you'll see. > > A pleasure to meet and talk, RAF! > > Best, > > --Joe > > > R A Fonda <rafonda@...> wrote: > > > > "Work out your OWN salvation with diligence". > > Ironic you should mention that, as it is the very reference I recently > > cited to Edgar, as supporting my view that the Bodhisattva Vow is > > presumptuous and a dubious doctrine. At any rate, my choice to eschew > > that vow is why I don't call myself a Buddhist, in spite of my sincere > > gratitude for his elucidation of the Way. > > > > > Thank you for an excellent response. > > > > RAF > > > > >
