Joe and Edgar, The obvious misconception you both seem to be implying is that the Bodhisattva sees him-self and others from a dualistic perspective and separate. A Bodhisattva has long since realized this division is illusory and does not differentiate between helping him-self and others. It is all the same.
The English term we use to describe this self-less (non-dualistic/holistic) action is 'compassion'. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > I disagree and your view is certainly at odds with Buddhist tradition. > > The traditional view is that the enlightened being sacrifices some of what he > has attained to return to the world to help other beings reach enlightenment > and thus transcend suffering. He does it FOR other beings, not FOR himself. > > However as I just said I do agree that the best way to help other beings is > to manifest one's own realization as an example. > > But that should NOT selfishly be thought of as doing it FOR ONESELF. One > manifests realization back into reality to bring realization TO reality. > > The process of realization can be thought of as the entire universe achieving > realization of its inherent Buddha Nature piece by piece as being after being > achieves realization and manifests it back to the rest of the universe. > > Edgar > > > On Nov 28, 2012, at 2:40 AM, Joe wrote: > > > RAF, > > > > Howdy from Arizona. > > > > The Bodhisattva vows are for ONESELF, not for all beings. That's important. > > > > One vows to oneself to save all beings, because, when we awaken, we realize > > that this is already the case, already done. So, vow fulfilled. > > > > The vow is a skilful means that one puts on oneself, skilfully. It is also > > a yoke. Thus, a Yoga. Really, it's very practical. Nothing to eschew, > > because it is not a promise. It is something that is fulfilled > > automatically when you wake up. But there I go spilling the beans. > > > > There's nothing wrong with the Bodhisattva vows; the only error is in > > preconceptions. It's Mister Dubious who is dubious. The vows are yours, not > > someone else's, and no one, nor anything else, holds you to them. > > > > But it helps to make them. I mean, to make them helps us to wake up. If you > > begin this or have begun this, especially in a formal context with teacher > > and sangha, in the midst of STRONG practice, you'll see. > > > > A pleasure to meet and talk, RAF! > > > > Best, > > > > --Joe > > > > > R A Fonda <rafonda@> wrote: > > > > > > "Work out your OWN salvation with diligence". > > > Ironic you should mention that, as it is the very reference I recently > > > cited to Edgar, as supporting my view that the Bodhisattva Vow is > > > presumptuous and a dubious doctrine. At any rate, my choice to eschew > > > that vow is why I don't call myself a Buddhist, in spite of my sincere > > > gratitude for his elucidation of the Way. > > > > > > > > Thank you for an excellent response. > > > > > > RAF > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
