Carl, It's an interesting suggestion, and from an obvious perspective.
But if you awaken, you will find out what true compassion is (and so will all of your loved ones and associates). It's not what you "think"! --Joe > "Carl" <cjjohans@...> wrote: > > I would suggest the true nature is not compassionate. If we take a > pantheistic view and consider the true nature to be a reflection of the world > as it is, then there is not a whole lot of compassion in the world. To me it > seems as if there are instead opposite principles in contention, and > compassion is one such principle. > > I do believe in some kind of deity, but not one that is interventionist or > the prerequisite of interventionist compassionate. I can agree that when one > takes baby steps towards awakening there can be a relative increase of > contentment, but I would argue that is not full awakening. > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > Howdy, Carl, > > > > Some training traditions emphasize and exercise practices that involve > > expression of deliberate compassion, ...which is not true compassion. > > > > You are, I think, well justified in considering this particular sort of > > bestowment of concern and consideration for others and *deliberate* placing > > of others FIRST to be a sort of attachment (although it's all "for a good > > cause", no?). > > > > But all practices are Means, Methods, of or for coming to awakening. At > > least in Zen practice they are; and, for maintaining awakening. > > > > At awakening, Wisdom and Compassion arise spontaneously and simultaneously, > > and there is no "I" available to be attached to anything, so I would say > > that attachment in that condition is moot. > > > > Attachment there and then is not even "impossible", but is simply MOOT. > > > > Different practices can lead to the same (empty, awakened) state because > > the practices do not yield a "training-effect" -- as the Psychologists > > would call it -- but they allow body and mind to fall away. This leaves > > only our original nature, our original state, our basic Human inheritance. > > > > Awakening is not an aquirement. > > > > It's nothing added. > > > > This is why, when awakening is genuine, it does not differ, and why Zen > > teachers can always identify it and confirm it. We share this condition > > even now with all beings. We just don't sense it, perhaps, because of what > > we call the feeling of movements of our "mind" (not the true Mind). Those > > movements and other illusions distract us from the ground, which is our > > nature. > > > > So, different practices can and do lead to the same condition/"place": > > For example, in Zen practice, the very different methods of (1.) Koan > > practice; and, (2.) Shikantaza, both lead to awakening. > > > > Other paths like Vipassana and Tibetan practice, employ Metta practice, > > *AS* a *practice*, and, again, that practice is an expression of > > 'compassion' by -- or as -- a deliberate exertion of effort. I put that > > 'compassion' in inverted commas JUST to distinguish it from Karuna, or the > > true compassion that arises spontaneously in the awakened person (and not > > at all to denigrate it). Karuna is a tool! (in those paths). > > > > A Carpenter does not denigrate his hammer and say, "Yeah, but it's not a > > HOUSE!" > > > > In paths where Metta is used as a practice, Metta is not the ONLY practice. > > It seems that all wisdom-traditions are cocktails of methods. > > > > In Zen practice, about 12 or 13 practices come to mind readily, but if I > > were to put my mind to it I think I could recall and name a few more. ;-) > > > > Actually, the number is infinite, but let's not go there. ;-) > > > > A lot of things are imputed to Mysticism, and I suppose a component *may* > > be involvement of emotions. But have you ever seen a newly awakened Zen > > practitioner, or been one? The "Dharma-joy" is *extremely* powerfully > > felt, and publicly visible, there's just no doubt about it at all. ;-) > > > > With regards!, > > > > --Joe ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
