Bob, Welcome to the group..
I was also taught to relax my eyes so they are only 'half' open, lower my gaze to about 3 feet in front of me and allow my eyes to de-focus. Closed eyes were discouraged to help keep your mind from wandering, minimize visualizations and because as you note of the tendency to sleep. The senses are always engaged. How could you disengage them while remaining conscious? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@...> wrote: > > HI Joe - I agree. I was taught to squint through slightly open eyes but not > at first. The senses do need to be engaged but should work 'properly' ie not > allowing the ego to take control of them and run with them. Easier said than > done. The ego, as it throws up things, always strike me like files with a > 'look at this' on the front of them. > > I take the guys through getting in contact with their senses prior to > starting meditation encompassing the idea of 'nowhere to go and nothing to > do'. I find that they can deal with the issues of meditation easier with > their eyes closed in the early stages. Eventually a few things happen as they > get stronger, sleep disappears as an issue and they naturally sit more > upright. Then open eyes are easier. > > A start is a start it means nothing, it is where you end up that counts. > Entry is from anywhere. In Zen's case you end up not being able to open your > mouth to say anything sensible. Strange really! > > Nice talking to you. > > Bob > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Thanks for posting the "notes" to the Group site as a .doc file. Well done > > and generous teaching and encouragement. Gee, I wish I could sit with your > > group. > > > > I'll note that, in general, in Zen practice as I've encountered it as > > taught and as practiced, we do not close the eyes. > > > > There are two reason for this. > > > > One is that we do not screen-out ANYTHING in our practice, as I've found > > it. All six senses are allowed to operate without screening. The "mind" > > is usually considered one of the six senses, so we do not suppress or > > screen out thoughts either: instead, we put all attention on the method of > > practice. If thoughts arise, we just do not follow them: that is not > > "screening", but it is just doing ONE thing at a time: remaining > > concentrated upon the method of practice in the time when we set ourself to > > practice. > > > > The second reason is that Zen practice is about opening to wisdom, through > > awakening. Closed eyes can lead to drowsiness and ... to sleep. > > > > Well, nothing new in these comments. And they are just that, > > comments. > > > > I like your noting the usefulness of the point of contact of the hands. I > > find in general that a closed mudra comes more naturally in our way of > > sitting, and does more good than an open mudra, a dispersing mudra, or no > > mudra. Hmm-m, I meant to write about this here last week, but the death of > > a very close sangha friend intervened and put me off doing much of > > anything: "Jim", a fellow who practiced his zazen with us always in a > > wheelchair. I'll get back to writing sometime. > > > > Thanks again posting! > > > > --Joe > > > > > "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@> wrote: > > > > > I also put statements and questions I prepare to them after the group. I > > > have attached a couple - (oops! attachments not so easy will try another > > > time). > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
