HI Bill thanks for the welcome. To answer your question I think there are different levels of awareness of our senses. To remind the new meditators of their senses brings, what is normally an autonomous process back into 'immediate reality' (indicating a clearer idea of the senses rather than the reality of reality - if you know what I mean).
Many years ago a group of us did an experiment in focus and coming in touch with the senses. We were given a large sheet of drwg paper and some charcoal. We all had to draw a huge orchid in a brass pot. I am useless at art and drawing match stick people is a stretch. Having meditated, done a few straight lines and a few circles we started by concentrating on a single point, drawing that and then moving on. After a short time I stood back and was astounded that I had drawn an orchid in all its glory. I hope this answers your question. Bob --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Bob, > > Welcome to the group.. > > I was also taught to relax my eyes so they are only 'half' open, lower my > gaze to about 3 feet in front of me and allow my eyes to de-focus. Closed > eyes were discouraged to help keep your mind from wandering, minimize > visualizations and because as you note of the tendency to sleep. > > The senses are always engaged. How could you disengage them while remaining > conscious? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@> wrote: > > > > HI Joe - I agree. I was taught to squint through slightly open eyes but not > > at first. The senses do need to be engaged but should work 'properly' ie > > not allowing the ego to take control of them and run with them. Easier said > > than done. The ego, as it throws up things, always strike me like files > > with a 'look at this' on the front of them. > > > > I take the guys through getting in contact with their senses prior to > > starting meditation encompassing the idea of 'nowhere to go and nothing to > > do'. I find that they can deal with the issues of meditation easier with > > their eyes closed in the early stages. Eventually a few things happen as > > they get stronger, sleep disappears as an issue and they naturally sit more > > upright. Then open eyes are easier. > > > > A start is a start it means nothing, it is where you end up that counts. > > Entry is from anywhere. In Zen's case you end up not being able to open > > your mouth to say anything sensible. Strange really! > > > > Nice talking to you. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > Thanks for posting the "notes" to the Group site as a .doc file. Well > > > done and generous teaching and encouragement. Gee, I wish I could sit > > > with your group. > > > > > > I'll note that, in general, in Zen practice as I've encountered it as > > > taught and as practiced, we do not close the eyes. > > > > > > There are two reason for this. > > > > > > One is that we do not screen-out ANYTHING in our practice, as I've found > > > it. All six senses are allowed to operate without screening. The "mind" > > > is usually considered one of the six senses, so we do not suppress or > > > screen out thoughts either: instead, we put all attention on the method > > > of practice. If thoughts arise, we just do not follow them: that is not > > > "screening", but it is just doing ONE thing at a time: remaining > > > concentrated upon the method of practice in the time when we set ourself > > > to practice. > > > > > > The second reason is that Zen practice is about opening to wisdom, > > > through awakening. Closed eyes can lead to drowsiness and ... to sleep. > > > > > > Well, nothing new in these comments. And they are just that, > > > comments. > > > > > > I like your noting the usefulness of the point of contact of the hands. > > > I find in general that a closed mudra comes more naturally in our way of > > > sitting, and does more good than an open mudra, a dispersing mudra, or no > > > mudra. Hmm-m, I meant to write about this here last week, but the death > > > of a very close sangha friend intervened and put me off doing much of > > > anything: "Jim", a fellow who practiced his zazen with us always in a > > > wheelchair. I'll get back to writing sometime. > > > > > > Thanks again posting! > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@> wrote: > > > > > > > I also put statements and questions I prepare to them after the group. > > > > I have attached a couple - (oops! attachments not so easy will try > > > > another time). > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
