hi bob... (yes i noted the change in address)
you have pre-concieved ideas in your mind as to what "drawing".. is... after all they are marks upon the "paper"...that is all... surely you can pick up a pencil and make a mark..a child can do it so why not you? you say "my partner's boy is very artistic, who can draw effectively"..draw what?..what do you mean by artistic? i love teaching people to draw..because drawing is such a very fundamental human activity... if you have learnt to write then you can learn to draw.. it's exactly the same thing..you did not cry i can't write when you were first introduced to it? you practised and you perfected the art look at the world around you in shape size line...basically that is all it is..add colour tone and texture.. i could go on and on but another very fundamental thing you must remove from your mind is the idea you cannot draw and the pre conceived idea of what has filled you with the idea of what is good and artistic and what is so called no good and not artistic in zen as bill! has pointed out so many times do not judge..it is neither good or bad neither is it artistic ... these are all as bill1.. and yes edgar ..would say are illusions... and by the way folk listening to krishnamurti this morning..he says there is no such thing as an empty mind..or emptiness.. anyway..back to drawing...remove from your mind all you have EVER heard about what drawing is or is not... just do it.. the hardest hurdle you will face is yourself as you confront the "white empty piece of paper"... what will i draw?... will i be good enough?...free yourself...try closing your eyes and just make marks on the paper..... it's all practise as joe says ... practise..and you must want to practise... i have just completed my autumn zen meditation no.1 drawing....now for the next drawing... autumn here in these mountains is just heavenly.. there are many interesting mushrooms popping up.. was at the daughter's house in bilpin yesterday.. milky saffrons are everywhere..( great eating) all the best merle Hi Merle your quote "drawing is a matter of observation... easy peasy" May well be easy peasy for you but for most of us it ain't. I personally don't know anyone apart from my partners boy, who is very artistic, who can draw effectively. Have you found it easy to teach people to draw? Was a wonder to me anyway! Have a small collection of ink paintings and enjoy them very much but not as much as a zen painting of a singer almost howling at the moon. bob BTW my user name has changed I stupidly didn't note it when I joined. Thought I would get a confirmation. Might go back to the original one now that I have logged in. --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > hi bob and all... > > drawing is a matter of observation... easy peasy!!!!! everyone can learn to > draw being an "artist" is a different kettle of fish! > > in ancient chinese ink drawings..the key was to meditate before...upon the > subject in question and then with  few brushstrokes capture it's essence > > ,... to me that is so zen.. > > straight to the nitty gritty.. > > teaches us that in life too we can also go to the very core of any given > moment and hence be there present and totally aware: fully engaged.... > > merle..(instead of doing the "fango dango" with our minds..) >  > Merle > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 > > > ________________________________ > > > >  > HI Bill thanks for the welcome. > > To answer your question I think there are different levels of awareness of > our senses. To remind the new meditators of their senses brings, what is > normally an autonomous process back into 'immediate reality' (indicating a > clearer idea of the senses rather than the reality of reality - if you know > what I mean). > > Many years ago a group of us did an experiment in focus and coming in touch > with the senses. We were given a large sheet of drwg paper and some charcoal. > We all had to draw a huge orchid in a brass pot. I am useless at art and > drawing match stick people is a stretch. Having meditated, done a few > straight lines and a few circles we started by concentrating on a single > point, drawing that and then moving on. After a short time I stood back and > was astounded that I had drawn an orchid in all its glory. > > I hope this answers your question. > > Bob > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Welcome to the group.. > > > > I was also taught to relax my eyes so they are only 'half' open, lower my > > gaze to about 3 feet in front of me and allow my eyes to de-focus. Closed > > eyes were discouraged to help keep your mind from wandering, minimize > > visualizations and because as you note of the tendency to sleep. > > > > The senses are always engaged. How could you disengage them while > > remaining conscious? > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@> wrote: > > > > > > HI Joe - I agree. I was taught to squint through slightly open eyes but > > > not at first. The senses do need to be engaged but should work 'properly' > > > ie not allowing the ego to take control of them and run with them. Easier > > > said than done. The ego, as it throws up things, always strike me like > > > files with a 'look at this' on the front of them. > > > > > > I take the guys through getting in contact with their senses prior to > > > starting meditation encompassing the idea of 'nowhere to go and nothing > > > to do'. I find that they can deal with the issues of meditation easier > > > with their eyes closed in the early stages. Eventually a few things > > > happen as they get stronger, sleep disappears as an issue and they > > > naturally sit more upright. Then open eyes are easier. > > > > > > A start is a start it means nothing, it is where you end up that counts. > > > Entry is from anywhere. In Zen's case you end up not being able to open > > > your mouth to say anything sensible. Strange really! > > > > > > Nice talking to you. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bob, > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting the "notes" to the Group site as a .doc file. Well > > > > done and generous teaching and encouragement. Gee, I wish I could sit > > > > with your group. > > > > > > > > I'll note that, in general, in Zen practice as I've encountered it as > > > > taught and as practiced, we do not close the eyes. > > > > > > > > There are two reason for this. > > > > > > > > One is that we do not screen-out ANYTHING in our practice, as I've > > > > found it. All six senses are allowed to operate without screening. > > > > The "mind" is usually considered one of the six senses, so we do not > > > > suppress or screen out thoughts either: instead, we put all attention > > > > on the method of practice. If thoughts arise, we just do not follow > > > > them: that is not "screening", but it is just doing ONE thing at a > > > > time: remaining concentrated upon the method of practice in the time > > > > when we set ourself to practice. > > > > > > > > The second reason is that Zen practice is about opening to wisdom, > > > > through awakening. Closed eyes can lead to drowsiness and ... to sleep. > > > > > > > > Well, nothing new in these comments. And they are just that, > > > > comments. > > > > > > > > I like your noting the usefulness of the point of contact of the hands. > > > > I find in general that a closed mudra comes more naturally in our way > > > > of sitting, and does more good than an open mudra, a dispersing mudra, > > > > or no mudra. Hmm-m, I meant to write about this here last week, but > > > > the death of a very close sangha friend intervened and put me off doing > > > > much of anything: "Jim", a fellow who practiced his zazen with us > > > > always in a wheelchair. I'll get back to writing sometime. > > > > > > > > Thanks again posting! > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > "bobthomas564" <bobthomas564@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I also put statements and questions I prepare to them after the > > > > > group. I have attached a couple - (oops! attachments not so easy will > > > > > try another time). > > > > > > > > > >
