Joe,

I checked out my dictionary references and couldn't really discover the 
difference between 'doctrine' and 'dogma'.  My sense of the two words is that 
'doctrine' is at a higher level - like mission or strategy, and 'dogma' is a 
lower level like tasks or tactics.  I think that pretty much corresponds with 
your thoughts below.

Anyway when you talk about the Ch'an sect or Zen sect you're still talking 
about a sect (sub-set) of Buddhism with that nasty little
'-ism' still intact.

Now if you want to talk about 'zen' (lower case 'z') as I do, then okay; but 
'zen' as I've experienced and practice does not have either doctrine nor dogma 
- only Just THIS!

...Bill!
 

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> 
> Using Christianity as a working example to me, and trying to generalize to 
> other Wisdom traditions, I'd say that the Buddhist teachings are not dogma, 
> as much as doctrine.
> 
> Could you check me on that?  You have good and admirable facility with 
> dictionaries.
> 
> The doctrine in Buddhism is inseparable from the teaching of Buddhadharma.  
> What is taught is doctrine.  And practice.
> 
> The Zen school, as we all know, however, is NOT the Teaching School.  
> Regarding Zen, we all remember fondly that:
> 
> "This is a special transmission of Mind, OUTSIDE the Scriptures, not 
> dependent on words and letters."
> 
> And yet, if we consider the origin of the Ch'an sect, it grew from people who 
> awakened under the influence of Buddhadharma, which includes all the doctrine 
> thereof ...and little dogma.  If I'm using my words right.  Bill!, will you 
> check up on this?  To your satisfaction, I mean?  ;-)
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > 
> > I'll split the difference with you.  I'll call the Eight-fold Path not just 
> > dogma but Buddhist dogma.
> > 
> > I thought the term 'Buddha Dharma' and Buddhism meant the same things.  How 
> > do you see them as different?
> > 
> > ...Bill!
>




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