Bill!,

There's something we've been entirely neglecting.  We've treated in our many 
considerations the matters of "Buddhism", and Zen Buddhism, and then Zen as 
practice without any ism-atudes outstanding.

Now, I'll put to you a large issue, but just by way of opening a matter for 
consideration.  Leaving aside the issues of Buddhism, and Zen Buddhism, and... 
let's say even leaving aside the issue of "Zen", as a practice, and as a 
"state".  Let me then, or now ask:

What about the issue of "Lineage"?

To me it seems a Human thing.

People in lineages talk about "Bloodlines".

They talk, too, about lineage-holders.

The Scriptures don't go into lineage.  I don't believe it's either Dharma, or 
doctrine, or dogma, "officially".  It's particular to sects, though: Tibetan 
schools; Ch'an schools; Zen schools; Son Schools; Thine schools.

What is lineage to you.  Is it something you've thought about before?  Is there 
anything that sticks or has stuck to your ribs about it?

I've had "goes" with it, and at it, at times, and have now been quiet about it 
inside for a long time.  And I haven't asked anyone about it in a long time.  
How's by you, then, when it comes to lineage?  I wonder what comes to mind.

Thanks considering this.

--Joe

> "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Joe,
> 
> I checked out my dictionary references and couldn't really discover the 
> difference between 'doctrine' and 'dogma'.  My sense of the two words is that 
> 'doctrine' is at a higher level - like mission or strategy, and 'dogma' is a 
> lower level like tasks or tactics.  I think that pretty much corresponds with 
> your thoughts below.
> 
> Anyway when you talk about the Ch'an sect or Zen sect you're still talking 
> about a sect (sub-set) of Buddhism with that nasty little
> '-ism' still intact.
> 
> Now if you want to talk about 'zen' (lower case 'z') as I do, then okay; but 
> 'zen' as I've experienced and practice does not have either doctrine nor 
> dogma - only Just THIS!




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