Where definitions fail etymology might elucidate: doctrine (n.) late 14c., from Old French doctrine (12c.) "teaching, doctrine," and directly from Latin doctrina "teaching, body of teachings, learning," from doctor "teacher" dogma (n.) c.1600 (in plural dogmata), from Latin dogma "philosophical tenet," from Greek dogma (genitive dogmatos) "opinion, tenet," literally "that which one thinks is true," from dokein "to seem good, think" (see decent). Treated in 17c.-18c. as a Greek word in English. The difference seems to be that one is an official teaching while the other is an opinion.
________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, April 19, 2013 9:53:44 PM Subject: [Zen] Re: breathing Joe, I checked out my dictionary references and couldn't really discover the difference between 'doctrine' and 'dogma'. My sense of the two words is that 'doctrine' is at a higher level - like mission or strategy, and 'dogma' is a lower level like tasks or tactics. I think that pretty much corresponds with your thoughts below. Anyway when you talk about the Ch'an sect or Zen sect you're still talking about a sect (sub-set) of Buddhism with that nasty little '-ism' still intact. Now if you want to talk about 'zen' (lower case 'z') as I do, then okay; but 'zen' as I've experienced and practice does not have either doctrine nor dogma - only Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > Using Christianity as a working example to me, and trying to generalize to >other Wisdom traditions, I'd say that the Buddhist teachings are not dogma, as >much as doctrine. > > Could you check me on that? You have good and admirable facility with >dictionaries. > > The doctrine in Buddhism is inseparable from the teaching of Buddhadharma. > What >is taught is doctrine. And practice. > > The Zen school, as we all know, however, is NOT the Teaching School. > Regarding >Zen, we all remember fondly that: > > "This is a special transmission of Mind, OUTSIDE the Scriptures, not > dependent >on words and letters." > > And yet, if we consider the origin of the Ch'an sect, it grew from people who >awakened under the influence of Buddhadharma, which includes all the doctrine >thereof ...and little dogma. If I'm using my words right. Bill!, will you >check >up on this? To your satisfaction, I mean? ;-) > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > I'll split the difference with you. I'll call the Eight-fold Path not just >dogma but Buddhist dogma. > > > > I thought the term 'Buddha Dharma' and Buddhism meant the same things. How > > do >you see them as different? > > > > ...Bill! >
