William, I didn't intend to hang you up on the word 'official'. What I mean to say isn't ALL doctrine and dogma 'just someone's (or a group of someone's)opinions?
...Bill! --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > Official might be incorrect, Since the etmology stated "from Latin doctrina > "teaching, body of teachings, learning," from doctor "teacher"" I was > thinking > that Doctrine would come from a more officially, universally accepted source > such as an Institution or a specific school of learning or transmission of > thought. > >  B > > > > > Find what makes your heart singâ¦and do it! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, April 20, 2013 12:32:10 AM > Subject: [Zen] Re: breathing > >  > William, > > Good detective work, but I don't understand you last statement: "...one is an > official teaching while the other is an opinion." > > > Aren't "official teachings" also opinions? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@> wrote: > > > > Where definitions fail etymology might elucidate: > > > > doctrine (n.) > > late 14c., from Old French doctrine (12c.) "teaching, doctrine," and > > directly > > from Latin doctrina "teaching, body of teachings, learning," from doctor > > "teacher" > > à> > dogma (n.) > > c.1600 (in plural dogmata), from Latin dogma "philosophical tenet," from > > Greek > > > dogma (genitive dogmatos) "opinion, tenet," literally "that which one > > thinks is > > > > true," from dokein "to seem good, think" (see decent). Treated in 17c.-18c. > > as > >a > > > > Greek word in English. > > à> > à> > The difference seems to be that one is an official teaching while the other > > is > > > an opinion. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Fri, April 19, 2013 9:53:44 PM > > Subject: [Zen] Re: breathing > > > > à> > Joe, > > > > I checked out my dictionary references and couldn't really discover the > > difference between 'doctrine' and 'dogma'. My sense of the two words is > > that > > 'doctrine' is at a higher level - like mission or strategy, and 'dogma' is > > a > > lower level like tasks or tactics. I think that pretty much corresponds > > with > > your thoughts below. > > > > Anyway when you talk about the Ch'an sect or Zen sect you're still talking > >about > > > > a sect (sub-set) of Buddhism with that nasty little > > '-ism' still intact. > > > > Now if you want to talk about 'zen' (lower case 'z') as I do, then okay; > > but > > 'zen' as I've experienced and practice does not have either doctrine nor > > dogma > >- > > > > only Just THIS! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > Using Christianity as a working example to me, and trying to generalize > > > to > > >other Wisdom traditions, I'd say that the Buddhist teachings are not > > >dogma, as > > > > >much as doctrine. > > > > > > Could you check me on that? You have good and admirable facility with > > >dictionaries. > > > > > > The doctrine in Buddhism is inseparable from the teaching of > > > Buddhadharma. > >What > > > > >is taught is doctrine. And practice. > > > > > > The Zen school, as we all know, however, is NOT the Teaching School. > >Regarding > > > > >Zen, we all remember fondly that: > > > > > > "This is a special transmission of Mind, OUTSIDE the Scriptures, not > >dependent > > > > >on words and letters." > > > > > > And yet, if we consider the origin of the Ch'an sect, it grew from people > > > who > > > > >awakened under the influence of Buddhadharma, which includes all the > > >doctrine > > > >thereof ...and little dogma. If I'm using my words right. Bill!, will you > >check > > > > >up on this? To your satisfaction, I mean? ;-) > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > I'll split the difference with you. I'll call the Eight-fold Path not > > > > just > > > >dogma but Buddhist dogma. > > > > > > > > I thought the term 'Buddha Dharma' and Buddhism meant the same things. > > > > How > >do > > > > >you see them as different? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
