Joe,

I empathize with you because I too struggle sometimes over what words or 
phrases to use to describe experience.  It starts from language being dualistic 
and experience (Buddha Nature) being hoistic; but the difficulty is also 
compounded by the different meanings the same words have to different people.

I agree 'empty mind' could be interpreted as 'spaciness', although the more I 
think about this I'm not sure if that's such a bad thing.  If you could just 
tweak 'spaciness' to mean 'naive' it would almost fit; at least it would almost 
fit for my purposes.

I use the term 'illusion' a lot but actually 'illusion' has a heavy visual 
connotation.  I've thought about 'delusion' which is more applicable to 
thoughts and therefore more closely describes what I mean to say - but 
'delusion' also carries a heavy connotation of mental illness.  I don't mean 
that.  When your discriminating mind (intellect) creates 'illusions' or 
'delusions' it's probably functioning properly.  I tried out the term 'mental 
concept' for a while but discarded that.  It's redundant also.  There are no 
'non-mental concepts'.  I guess I could just distill it down to 'concepts'.   
That works for me but I'm not sure if it communicates effectively to others.

Oh well...I guess that's a bog part of the reason I participate in this forum - 
to try to develop a better way to communicate experience - Buddha Nature.

All for now...Bill!   

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> 
> I eschew use of the term "an empty mind" because it could imply -- just on 
> the off chance, at times, in some readers -- a "spacey" mentality (such as 
> Astronomers have?).  Mere blankness, I mean.
> 
> But using it as a technical term, and avoiding the incursion of the 
> colloquial connotation, I accept it, and can agree.
> 
> A mind full of concepts, or even full of just one, is not necessarily Zen 
> Mind, and most likely is not.
> 
> No, I see no disagreement, Bill!.
> 
> --Joe
> 
> PS (It's not like me to quote aphorisms, or out-of-context teachings by 
> others.  But today is an exception.  I'm not myself today).  ;-)
> 
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Joe,
> > 
> > What you wrote below is fine and I agree with it.  I also think an 'empty 
> > mind' is compatible to everything written below.  I do not think a mind 
> > full of concepts (illusions) is compatible.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to