bill...yes edgar..what is your interpretation of an open mind? can you clarify?..merle Merle,
Edgar and I cannot agree because we have a completely different idea of what Buddha Nature is, and therefore what zen is. Just why Edgar holds the opinions he does I don't know. I hold mine because first and foremost they are formed from my experience. Secondly they conform with what I've been taught - not everything I've been taught, but most of it. Lastly they correspond with what I've read - not everything I've read, but most of it. Edgar's suggestion of 'opening the mind' is fine. I don't think anyone would argue that having a closed mind is better. You'll have to ask Edgar to explain his idea of 'opening the mind' a little more. I don't want to speak for him, but I SUSPECT his idea of opening the mind is so you can start filling it up with knowledge, but that IMO is not the way to experience Buddha Nature. I could also use that phrase but if I did my idea of 'opening the mind' would be to start emptying it of illusions and prejudices so you can experience Buddha Nature. These are two diametrically opposed approaches. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  >  bill!..maybe emptying the cup and opening the mind are both the same > thing..check with edgar...you 2 seem to be at loggerheads over this..why? >  can you not agree to disagree?..merle > > No, I can't say I do. At least not entirely. > > Edgar's teacup is about 3/4 full. He wants to keep filling it up. I'm > advising him to empty it out. > > I'm not sure what he means by 'opening the mind'. That sounds nice an > new-agey, but what does it mean? Does it mean emptying his cup? Or does it > mean breaking his cup? > > I think he should just empty his cup and go from there. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  > >  bill!..you agree with this surely?...opening the mind?..merle > >  > > Bill, > > > > Zen neither empties or fills your mind. The very concept of this dualism is > > incorrect. > > > > Zen is simply opening mind to what is. It is pure consciousness of either > > the forms or the formless.. > > > > And btw it is NOT "your mind". It is simply consciousness antecedent to any > > distinction of self and not-self... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2013, at 7:52 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > >  > > >Edgar, > > > > > >Yes. I'm afraid we have a fundamental disagreement here. > > > > > >I think zen practice empties out your mind, and you think it fills it up. > > > > > >Do you want to Rock/Paper/Scissors for it? > > > > > >..Bill! > > > > > >--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Bill, > > >> > > >> As usual you contradict the Zen teachings which I support.... > > >> > > >> Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Apr 26, 2013, at 9:38 PM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > >> > Edgar, > > >> > > > >> > I see your problem now. > > >> > > > >> > You think progress in zen is measured in ADDING ON things - like > > >> > knowledge. It's not. You progress in zen by TAKING AWAY things until > > >> > you get down to Just THIS! > > >> > > > >> > You don't progress from Level 2 to Level 3. You progress from Level 2 > > >> > to Level 1 and then to Level 0 which is actually no-level - Buddha > > >> > Nature. > > >> > > > >> > You're trying to fill you cup up instead of emptying it...Bill! > > >> > > > >> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > Bill, > > >> > > > > >> > > That's Niels, not Neal. > > >> > > > > >> > > Go back to stage one and get it right. Do NOT pass go! > > >> > > :-) > > >> > > > > >> > > Edgar > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Edgar, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > *** Sorry, I misread your post below and Replied incorrectly. I > > >> > > > erased that but if you get the posts by email you might have > > >> > > > received it. If you did please disregard. My corrected post is *** > > >> > > > > > >> > > > What do you mean Stage Three? Neal and I are done with Stage Two > > >> > > > and and now ready for Stage One! > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Bill, > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks for the quote in which Bohr correctly expresses stage two > > >> > > > > "mountains are no longer mountains". > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Stage three is when those unreal illusory things are realized to > > >> > > > > be the true reality. Then mountains become mountains again.. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Both Bill and Bohr haven't reached that stage yet... > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Edgar > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 5:38 AM, Bill! wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Maybe Edgar will listen to him... > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > ...Bill! > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
