My words on this are that it is a common configuration of the intellect, rather than some illusion separate from the intellect. Easiest to turn off intellect ti learn self is unreal, but I wouldn't claim it is only way. Tricky to make such claims. Thoughts without a self certainly occur.
Also, the emphasis is on self, THE SELF does not exist, rather than on existing, this self does not EXIST. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On May 2, 2013 6:34 AM, "Bill!" <[email protected]> wrote: > Merle, > > Your identity with your self indeed does not really exist. It's an > illusion. You could think of it as a mental hologram if you wish. All you > need to do is to turn off the power source (your intellect) and it will > vanish. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > > > > >  bill! > > > >  jolly good! > > > > in other words i don't exist > > > > i am a hologram at the best of times eh? > > > >  merle > > > >  > > Merle, > > > > Suffering can be entirely eliminated and William is right that this is > the promise of Buddhism. > > > > This is Buddhism 101: > > > > - Life is suffering > > - Suffering is caused by attachments > > - Attachments are caused by/enabled by identification with your self > > - The self is illusory > > > > So, like a big house of cards when you dissolve the illusion of self you > take away the anchor for attachments causing them to fall away which > eliminates suffering. > > > > And how do you come to recognize the self as illusory? My suggestion is > you do zazen (zen meditation) staring with counting your breaths. When you > stop your intellect from producing illusions (and most especially the > illusion of self) you experience Buddha Nature. > > > > And then Voila! Just This! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > my understanding is suffering cannot be eliminated..how the hell can > that come about..the very nature of life is suffering... > > > point to me who does not what does not..be it animal mineral or > vegetable.. > > > the notion of happy happy is absurd.. > > > we can come to terms with suffering > > >  we can embrace and realise that compassion and eternal universal > love can lift us from suffering and soar us high above the treetops to the > heavens above just as the eagle flies we too can fly.. > > > > > > merle > > > > > >  some strawberries are sour i have noted in my many years of eating > strawberries...this i refer to as the "chop suey" of life...sweet and > sour... > > > > > > > > >  > > > And yet you are the one who started this conversation. It has been > my understanding that the primary message of Buddhism was addressing > suffering. What it is and how to stop it. The Buddha was not searching > or teaching ways to survive crises but to end suffering. I can agree > that survivability might be enhanced by being fully in the moment but I see > no certainty of it. In my readings of Zen the moment of Death is often > addressed with an awareness and often a smile. The strawberry is so > sweet. suey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Joe <desert_woodworker@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 4:27:50 PM > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Someone Else's Opinion on What is Real and What is > Not... > > > > > >  > > > Hi, William, > > > > > > The crisis is and was the one you raised earlier, about killing some > beast or other. Thought and pondering at that scene would be inexcusable, > while acting in accord with need, informed by your intimacy and full > presence and awareness of conditions, would give you an opening to hunt > another day. > > > > > > Coming back to practice, practice enables habits to drop, so we can be > present fully. You can still use what you've learned, but you won't be > bound by it. That is all. > > > > > > And that is the point. I won't engage in useless historicizing, not in > a Zen discussion forum, anyway. If we're not already clear about how > practice works, then the next step is clear: practice. There may be > pointers on it here at the Forum. A real teacher face to face is the best > teacher though, many here would agree. > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Email <brintala@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You've modified your original position from a statement of our > genetic > > > inheritance to surviving a crisis. That quite a bit different. > However from your current position are you saying that the people who died > from the bombings in Boston were "burdened and unable to act spontaneously" > while those who survived were "acting spontaneously and were unburdened"? > Or is there some other type if crisis? > > > > If two people, one who was unburdened and acting spontaneously and > had never encountered a tiger in the wild and the other who hunted tigers > daily, were to suddenly be faced with one, who would survive this crisis? > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
