Merle, Yes, you are correct - "...according to guru edgar...".
Ask Edgar how then how to eliminate suffering. Maybe he'll say you have to learn all about the causes and effects, and the associations and relationships, and then you'll just be able to think it away. I don't know... ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill!..hang on edgar says we MUST use our reason..so turning off one's > intellect is not the plan according to guru edgar...merle > > >  > Merle, > > Your identity with your self indeed does not really exist. It's an illusion. > You could think of it as a mental hologram if you wish. All you need to do > is to turn off the power source (your intellect) and it will vanish. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > àbill! > > > > àjolly good! > > > > in other words i don't exist > > > > i am a hologram at the best of times eh? > > > > àmerle > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > Suffering can be entirely eliminated and William is right that this is the > > promise of Buddhism. > > > > This is Buddhism 101: > > > > - Life is suffering > > - Suffering is caused by attachments > > - Attachments are caused by/enabled by identification with your self > > - The self is illusory > > > > So, like a big house of cards when you dissolve the illusion of self you > > take away the anchor for attachments causing them to fall away which > > eliminates suffering. > > > > And how do you come to recognize the self as illusory? My suggestion is > > you do zazen (zen meditation) staring with counting your breaths. When you > > stop your intellect from producing illusions (and most especially the > > illusion of self) you experience Buddha Nature. > > > > And then Voila! Just This! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > my understanding is suffering cannot be eliminated..how the hell can that > > > come about..the very nature of life is suffering...Ãâà> > > point to me who does not what does not..be it animal mineral or > > > vegetable.. > > > the notion of happy happy is absurd.. > > > we can come to terms with suffering > > > Ãâàwe can embrace and realise that compassion and eternal universal > > > love can lift us from suffering and soar us high above the treetops to > > > the heavens above just as the eagle flies we too can fly.. > > > > > > merle > > > > > > Ãâàsome strawberries are sour i have noted in my many years of > > > eating strawberries...this i refer to as the "chop suey" of life...sweet > > > and sour... > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > And yet you are the one who started this conversation.ÃâàIt has > > > been my understanding that the primaryÃâàmessage of Buddhism was > > > addressing suffering.ÃâàWhat it is and how to stop it. The Buddha > > > was not searching or teaching ways to survive crises but to end > > > suffering.ÃâàI can agree that survivability might be enhanced by > > > being fully in the moment but I see no certainty of it. In my readings of > > > Zen the moment of Death is often addressed with an awareness and often a > > > smile. The strawberry is so sweet.Ãâàsuey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Joe <desert_woodworker@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 4:27:50 PM > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Someone Else's Opinion on What is Real and What is > > > Not... > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hi, William, > > > > > > The crisis is and was the one you raised earlier, about killing some > > > beast or other. Thought and pondering at that scene would be inexcusable, > > > while acting in accord with need, informed by your intimacy and full > > > presence and awareness of conditions, would give you an opening to hunt > > > another day. > > > > > > Coming back to practice, practice enables habits to drop, so we can be > > > present fully. You can still use what you've learned, but you won't be > > > bound by it. That is all. > > > > > > And that is the point. I won't engage in useless historicizing, not in a > > > Zen discussion forum, anyway. If we're not already clear about how > > > practice works, then the next step is clear: practice. There may be > > > pointers on it here at the Forum. A real teacher face to face is the best > > > teacher though, many here would agree. > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Email <brintala@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You've modified your original position from a statement of our genetic > > > inheritance to surviving a crisis. That quite a bit different. However > > > from your current position are you saying that the people who died from > > > the bombings in Boston were "burdened and unable to act spontaneously" > > > while those who survived were "acting spontaneously and were unburdened"? > > > Or is there some other type if crisis? > > > > If two people, one who was unburdened and acting spontaneously and had > > > > never encountered a tiger in the wild and the other who hunted tigers > > > > daily, were to suddenly be faced with one, who would survive this > > > > crisis? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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