William, The person who makes a distinction between 'zen' and 'Zen' is me.
The way I use these terms 'Zen' (upper-case 'Z') is a proper noun and refers to Zen Buddhism which I see as a sub-set or sect of Buddhism. It's 'zen' wrapped up in all the dogma and doctrine of Buddhism. I refer to 'zen' (lower-case 'z') as a common noun and refers just to the kernel of techniques and teachings that lead you to first experience Buddha Nature and then to more fully integrate that experience into your daily life. I use the term 'Buddha Nature' but it is actually just an awareness of pure, unadulterated, holistic sensory experience before the intellect goes to work creating the illusion of dualism and then subjecting experience to all sorts of rational processing such as filtering, augmenting, categorizing, associating, naming, judging, etc... That is why for me 'zen' is just zen - the experience of Buddha Nature. Whereas 'Zen' is a religion which carries with it all the other pomp and circumstance of Buddhism proper. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > Bill! you say "And before someone jumps all over me on this I want to point > out > that this is BUDDHISM, not zen." > > In all serious I ask what the difference is between Zen and Buddhism? My > eclectic readings have them mixed up and bundled together as in Zen Buddhism > or > Zen Buddhist? Was your choice to not capitalize zen intentional? I > noticed > that someone here has made a distinction between Zen and zen, which > completely > eludes me as well. Can you help me understand that as well? Thank you. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, May 2, 2013 3:41:37 AM > Subject: [Zen] Re: blown over by a stick > >  > Merle, > > Sorry, but that's the God-awful truth.  Buddhism is all about the relief of > suffering. > > Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Buddhism: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism > > > Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian subcontinent that > encompasses a > variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings > attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as the Buddha, > meaning > "the awakened one". The Buddha lived and taught in the eastern part of > the Indian subcontinent sometime between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE.[1] > He is > recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared > his > insights to help sentient beings end their suffering (dukkha) through the > elimination of ignorance (avidyÃ�) by way of understanding and the seeing > of > dependent origination (pratëtyasamutpÃ�da) and the elimination of > craving > (taá¹â¡hÃ�), and thus the attainment of the cessation of all suffering, > known as > the sublime state of nirvÃ�à â a.[2] > > I've highlighted the parts to which I want to draw your attention that > pertain > to the question at hand. > > And before someone jumps all over me on this I want to point out that this is > BUDDHISM, not zen. > > ...Bill! > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > àrubbish..you can dissolve into the now.. > > > > life is suffering..nothing to do with attachments.. > > > > like to see you bill when you have a physical aliment.. > > > > sure you can whisk it away for a moment or two..try mental suffering...that > >cannot be dissolvedà> > > > the promise of buddhism is release from suffering.. > > > > right..maybe > > > > yes it is a way of viewing suffering however you cannot escape it.. > > > > rather you accept it > > > > so how come buddhist monks are the first to set fire to themselves when > > they > >see injustices done? > > > > àthat would be mega suffering and don't tell me they don't suffer as the > >flames engulf them > > > > have you ever truly suffered bill?.. or seen loved ones suffering? > > > > àas you eat your stir fried chicken do you not realise the suffering > > that was > >impose on this creature that you might live and live to suffer? > > > > acceptance is the key word in my books > > > > àacceptance, àcompassion and universal love > > > > àif that is not buddhism then well i'll be blown over by a stick > > > > àmerle > > > > > > à> > Merle, > > > > Suffering can be entirely eliminated and William is right that this is the > >promise of Buddhism. > > > > This is Buddhism 101: > > > > - Life is suffering > > - Suffering is caused by attachments > > - Attachments are caused by/enabled by identification with your self > > - The self is illusory > > > > So, like a big house of cards when you dissolve the illusion of self you > > take > >away the anchor for attachments causing them to fall away which eliminates > >suffering. > > > > And how do you come to recognize the self as illusory? My suggestion is you > > do > >zazen (zen meditation) staring with counting your breaths. When you stop > >your > >intellect from producing illusions (and most especially the illusion of > >self) > >you experience Buddha Nature. > > > > And then Voila! Just This! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester merlewiitpom@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > my understanding is suffering cannot be eliminated..how the hell can that > >come about..the very nature of life is suffering...Ãâà> > > point to me who does not what does not..be it animal mineral or > > > vegetable.. > > > the notion of happy happy is absurd.. > > > we can come to terms with suffering > > > Ãâàwe can embrace and realise that compassion and eternal universal > > > love can > >lift us from suffering and soar us high above the treetops to the heavens > >above > >just as the eagle flies we too can fly.. > > > > > > merle > > > > > > Ãâàsome strawberries are sour i have noted in my many years of > > > eating > >strawberries...this i refer to as the "chop suey" of life...sweet and sour... > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > And yet you are the one who started this conversation.ÃâàIt has > > > been my > >understanding that the primaryÃâàmessage of Buddhism was addressing > >suffering.ÃâàWhat it is and how to stop it. The Buddha was not > >searching or > >teaching ways to survive crises but to end suffering.ÃâàI can agree > >that > >survivability might be enhanced by being fully in the moment but I see no > >certainty of it. In my readings of Zen the moment of Death is often > >addressed > >with an awareness and often a smile. The strawberry is so sweet.Ãâàsuey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Joe desert_woodworker@ > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 4:27:50 PM > > > Subject: [Zen] Re: Someone Else's Opinion on What is Real and What is > > > Not... > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Hi, William, > > > > > > The crisis is and was the one you raised earlier, about killing some > > > beast or > >other. Thought and pondering at that scene would be inexcusable, while > >acting in > >accord with need, informed by your intimacy and full presence and awareness > >of > >conditions, would give you an opening to hunt another day. > > > > > > Coming back to practice, practice enables habits to drop, so we can be > >present fully. You can still use what you've learned, but you won't be bound > >by > >it. That is all. > > > > > > And that is the point. I won't engage in useless historicizing, not in a > > > Zen > >discussion forum, anyway. If we're not already clear about how practice > >works, > >then the next step is clear: practice. There may be pointers on it here at > >the > >Forum. A real teacher face to face is the best teacher though, many here > >would > >agree. > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Email wrote: > > > > > > > > You've modified your original position from a statement of our genetic > > > inheritance to surviving a crisis. That quite a bit different. However > > > from > >your current position are you saying that the people who died from the > >bombings > >in Boston were "burdened and unable to act spontaneously" while those who > >survived were "acting spontaneously and were unburdened"? Or is there some > >other > >type if crisis? > > > > > > If two people, one who was unburdened and acting spontaneously and had > >never encountered a tiger in the wild and the other who hunted tigers daily, > >were to suddenly be faced with one, who would survive this crisis? > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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