I interpret it as the world of forms which btw is the correct translation. Edgar
On May 16, 2013, at 8:21 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I agree with that statement but probably don't interpret it the same way you > do. I think we'd both agree with the first part of the statement. Our > difference would be in the second part of the statement and the use of the > term 'phenomena'. > > I read that as 'experience of phenomena' or more accurately just 'experience' > - or as I usually call it 'Buddha Nature'. This is as opposed to > thought/illusion which I believe is the subject of the first part of the > statement. > > How do you interpret the term 'phenomena' as used in Dogen's statement? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > You should really read and understand Dogen for a change. > > > > He's saying what I say that you condemn, e.g. "It is an illusion to try to > > carry out our practice and enlightenment through ourselves, but to have > > practice and enlightenment through phenomena, that is enlightenment." > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On May 15, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Well, here's an attempt at an explanation of that dreaded term > > > "Enlightenment" by Dogen. It's of course a translation but probably > > > pretty close since the original was written in a modern language > > > (Japanese) in the 1200's and translated into English by a team consisting > > > of a native Japanese-speaker and a native English-speaker. > > > > > > It's a little long but well worth a read. > > > > > > The Actualization of Enlightenment by Eihei Dogen > > > > > > Translated by Kosen Nishiyama and John Stevens, 1975 > > > > > > "When all things are the Buddha-dharma, there is enlightenment, illusion, > > > practice, life, death, Buddhas, and sentient beings. When all things are > > > seen not to have any substance, there is no illusion or enlightenment, no > > > Buddhas or sentient beings, no birth, or destruction. Originally the > > > Buddhist Way transcends itself and any idea of abundance or lack--still > > > there is birth and destruction, illusion and enlightenment, sentient > > > beings and Buddhas. Yet people hate to see flowers fall and do not like > > > weeds to grow. > > > > > > It is an illusion to try to carry out our practice and enlightenment > > > through ourselves, but to have practice and enlightenment through > > > phenomena, that is enlightenment. To have great enlightenment about > > > illusion is to be a Buddha. To have great illusion about enlightenment is > > > to be a sentient being. Further, some are continually enlightened beyond > > > enlightenment but some add more and more illusion. > > > > > > When Buddhas become Buddhas, it is not necessary for them to be aware > > > they are Buddhas. However, they are still enlightened Buddhas and > > > continually realize Buddha. Through body and mind we can comprehend the > > > form and sound of things. They work together as one. However, if it not > > > like the reflection of shadow in a mirror, or the moon reflected in the > > > water. If you look at only one side, the other is dark. > > > > > > To learn the Buddhist way is to learn about oneself. To learn about > > > oneself is to forget oneself. To forget oneself is to perceive oneself as > > > all things. To realize this is to cast off the body and mind of self and > > > others. When you have reached this stage you will be detached even from > > > enlightenment but will practice it continually without thinking about it. > > > > > > When people seek the Dharma [outside themselves] they are immediately far > > > removed from its true location. When the Dharma has been received through > > > the right transmission, one's real self immediately appears. > > > If you are in a boat, and you only look at the riverbank, you will think > > > that the riverbank is moving; but if you look at the boat, you will > > > discover that the boat itself is actually moving. Similarly, if you try > > > to understand the nature of phenomena only through your own confused > > > perception you will mistakenly think that your nature is eternal. > > > Furthermore, if you have the right practice and return to your origin > > > then you will see that all things have no permanent self. > > > > > > Once firewood is reduced to ashes, it cannot return to firewood; but we > > > should not think of ashes as the potential stare of firewood or > > > vice-versa. Ash is completely ash and firewood is firewood. They have > > > their own past, future, and independent existence. > > > > > > Similarly, when human beings die, they cannot return to life; but in > > > Buddhist teaching we never say that life changes into death. This is an > > > established teaching of the Buddhist Dharma. We call it "non-becoming." > > > Likewise, death cannot change into life. This is another principle of > > > Buddha's Law. This is called "non-destruction". Life and death have > > > absolute existence, like the relationship of winter and spring. But do > > > not think of winter changing into spring or spring to summer. > > > > > > When human beings attain enlightenment, it is like the moon reflected in > > > the water. The moon appears in the water but does not get wet nor is the > > > water disturbed by the moon. Furthermore the light of the moon covers the > > > earth and yet it can be contained in small pool of water, a tiny dewdrop, > > > or even one minuscule drop of water. > > > Just as the moon does not trouble the water in any way, do not think > > > enlightenment causes people difficulty. Do not consider enlightenment an > > > obstacle in your life. The depths of the dewdrop cannot contain the > > > heights of the moon and the sky. > > > > > > When the True Law is not totally attained, both physically and mentally, > > > there is a tendency to think that we posses the complete Law and our work > > > is finished. If the Dharma is completely present, there is a realization > > > of ones insufficiencies. > > > > > > For example, if you take a boat to the middle of the ocean, beyond the > > > sight of any mountains, and look in all four directions, the ocean appear > > > round. However, the ocean is not round, and its virtue is limitless. It > > > is like a palace and an adornment of precious jewels. But to us, the > > > ocean seems to be one large circle of water. So we see this can be said > > > of all things. Depending on the viewpoint we see things in different > > > ways. Correct perception depends upon the amount of ones study and > > > practice. In order to understand various types of viewpoints we must > > > study the numerous aspects and virtues of mountains and oceans, rather > > > than just circles. We should know that it is not only so all around us > > > but also within us--even in a single drop of water. > > > > > > Fish in the ocean find the water endless and birds think the sky is > > > without limits. However, neither fish nor birds have been separated from > > > their element. When their need is great, their utilization is great, when > > > their need is small, the utilization is small. They fully utilize every > > > aspect to its utmost--freely, limitlessly. However, we should know that > > > if birds are separated from their own element they will die. We should > > > know hat water is life for fish and the sky is life for birds. In the > > > sky, birds are life; and in the water, fish are life. Many more > > > conclusions can be drawn like this. There is practice and enlightenment > > > [like the above relationships of sky and birds, fish and water]. However, > > > after the clarification of water and sky, we can see that if there are > > > birds or fish, that try to enter the sky or water, they cannot find > > > either a way or a place. If we understand this point, there is > > > actualization of enlightenment in our daily life. If we attain this this > > > Way, all our actions are the actualization of enlightenment. This Way, > > > this place, is not great or small, self or others, neither past or > > > present--it exists just as it is. > > > > > > Like this, if we practice and realize the Buddhist way we can master and > > > penetrate each dharma;and we can confront and master any one practice. > > > There is a place where we can penetrate the Way and find the extent of > > > knowable perceptions. This happens because our knowledge co-exists > > > simultaneously with the ultimate fulfillment of the Buddhist Dharma. > > > > > > After this fulfillment becomes the basis of our perception, do not think > > > that our perception is necessarily understood by the intellect. Although > > > enlightenment is actualized quickly, it is not always totally manifested > > > [it is too profound an inexhaustible for our limited intellect]. > > > > > > One day, when Zen Master Hotestsu of Mt. Mayoku was fanning himself, a > > > monk approached and asked, "The nature of wind never changes and blows > > > everywhere so why are you using a fan." > > > > > > The master replied, "Although you know the nature of wind never changes > > > you do not know the meaning of blowing everywhere". The monk then said, > > > "Well, what does it mean?" Hotetsu did not speak but only continue to fan > > > himself. Finally the monk understood and bowed deeply before him. > > > > > > The experience, the realization, and the living, right transmission of > > > the Buddhist Dharma is like this. To say it is not necessary to use a fan > > > because the ntarue of the wind never changes and there will be wind even > > > without one means that he does not know the real meaning of "never > > > changes" or the wind's nature. Just as the wind's nature never changes, > > > the wind of Buddhism makes the earth golden and cause the rivers to flow > > > with sweet, fermented milk." > > > > > > This was written in mid-autumn, 1233, and given to the lay disciple > > > Yo-ko-shu of Kyushu. > > > > > > > > > >
