Edgar, This kind of sophistry might work with your usual crowd but I can guarantee you it won't slip by me.
The thread was about the role of teachers and students, not about messages. You are the one who claims to have changed the focus to messages, but I suspect that was only after I pointed out that what you wrote about the relationship between authority, arrogance and truth. Zen is NOT as personality contest...AND zen is not an UNDERSTANDING contest either. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Why do you concentrate on personalities and thereby miss the meaning? > > Zen is NOT a personality contest.... > > Edgar > > > On May 19, 2013, at 8:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > The subject of this thread is the speaker (teacher) not the message as you > > suggest below, but I don't have any problem with what you say below. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > We are talking about the message, not the speaker. The authority of the > > > message is its truth. It's truth is its authority. > > > > > > A true message is only considered arrogant by a closed, defensive and > > > unawakened mind.... > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2013, at 4:08 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > I disagree with your definitions. > > > > > > > > You can be arrogant and still speak the truth; and you can be an > > > > authority and still speak falsely. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Siska, > > > >> > > > >> The difference between arrogance and authority is whether the message > > > >> is true... > > > >> > > > >> Anyway I wasn't referring to you but to those who speak here as if > > > >> they speak FOR Zen without knowing what they speak is false... I'm > > > >> surprised you'd consider yourself in that group. > > > >> > > > >> Edgar > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On May 18, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> such arrogance edgar!..the makings of a "superman"...merle > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Siska, > > > >>> > > > >>> Yes. I continually learn from the 'teachers' on this group what NOT > > > >>> to believe and what NOT to do! > > > >>> :-) > > > >>> > > > >>> Edgar > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On May 18, 2013, at 5:15 AM, siska wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Hi Bill, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I'd say we all are teachers when others learn from us, and we are > > > >>>> students whenever we are open to learn from others. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> So, like it or not, I think you're always a teacher ;-) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Siska > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Sent from Samsung tablet > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Merle, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> We are teachers if we have a student. We are students if we have a > > > >>>> teacher. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I was a student for many years and even was a teacher for a short > > > >>>> time. At this point in my life I am neither a teacher or a student. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ...Bill! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Â > > > >>>>> Â bill...are we not all teachers?,,,and all students?..who are we > > > >>>>> if not teacher and student rolled into one..?..merle > > > >>>>> Â > > > >>>>> Merle, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I'm not a zen teacher, certainly don't feel qualified to make up a > > > >>>>> koan nor to work with anyone on an existing koan. I'll have to pass > > > >>>>> on this one. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ...Bill! > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> yes so get cracking ...let's have the koan!!!!!!!!!! merle > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> ÃÂ > > > >>>>>> Merle and Mike, > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Okay, this story is labeled a 'parable' which as I said is not a > > > >>>>>> koan - although could serve as the basis for a koan. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> ...Bill! > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Merle,<br/><br/>With pleasure!<br/><br/>18. A > > > >>>>>>> Parable<br/><br/>Buddha told a parable in sutra:<br/><br/>A man > > > >>>>>>> traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger > > > >>>>>>> after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a > > > >>>>>>> wild vine and swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed > > > >>>>>>> at him from above. Trembling, the man looked down to where, far > > > >>>>>>> below, another tiger was waiting to eat him. Only the vine > > > >>>>>>> sustained him.<br/><br/>Two mice, one white and one black, little > > > >>>>>>> by little started to gnaw away the vine. The man saw a luscious > > > >>>>>>> strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one hand, he plucked > > > >>>>>>> the strawberry with the other. How sweet it > > > >>>>>>> tasted!<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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