Bill, Zen IS about understanding. Zen requires right understanding. Again I represent the core of the teaching.
"Right thought" is a core precept of the Buddha... Right thought is correct understanding..... Edgar On May 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > This kind of sophistry might work with your usual crowd but I can guarantee > you it won't slip by me. > > The thread was about the role of teachers and students, not about messages. > You are the one who claims to have changed the focus to messages, but I > suspect that was only after I pointed out that what you wrote about the > relationship between authority, arrogance and truth. > > Zen is NOT as personality contest...AND zen is not an UNDERSTANDING contest > either. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Why do you concentrate on personalities and thereby miss the meaning? > > > > Zen is NOT a personality contest.... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > On May 19, 2013, at 8:11 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > The subject of this thread is the speaker (teacher) not the message as > > > you suggest below, but I don't have any problem with what you say below. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > We are talking about the message, not the speaker. The authority of the > > > > message is its truth. It's truth is its authority. > > > > > > > > A true message is only considered arrogant by a closed, defensive and > > > > unawakened mind.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 2013, at 4:08 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > I disagree with your definitions. > > > > > > > > > > You can be arrogant and still speak the truth; and you can be an > > > > > authority and still speak falsely. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Siska, > > > > >> > > > > >> The difference between arrogance and authority is whether the > > > > >> message is true... > > > > >> > > > > >> Anyway I wasn't referring to you but to those who speak here as if > > > > >> they speak FOR Zen without knowing what they speak is false... I'm > > > > >> surprised you'd consider yourself in that group. > > > > >> > > > > >> Edgar > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On May 18, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> such arrogance edgar!..the makings of a "superman"...merle > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Siska, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Yes. I continually learn from the 'teachers' on this group what NOT > > > > >>> to believe and what NOT to do! > > > > >>> :-) > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Edgar > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On May 18, 2013, at 5:15 AM, siska wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi Bill, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I'd say we all are teachers when others learn from us, and we are > > > > >>>> students whenever we are open to learn from others. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> So, like it or not, I think you're always a teacher ;-) > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Siska > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Sent from Samsung tablet > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Merle, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> We are teachers if we have a student. We are students if we have a > > > > >>>> teacher. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I was a student for many years and even was a teacher for a short > > > > >>>> time. At this point in my life I am neither a teacher or a student. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> ...Bill! > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Â > > > > >>>>> Â bill...are we not all teachers?,,,and all students?..who are we > > > > >>>>> if not teacher and student rolled into one..?..merle > > > > >>>>> Â > > > > >>>>> Merle, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> I'm not a zen teacher, certainly don't feel qualified to make up > > > > >>>>> a koan nor to work with anyone on an existing koan. I'll have to > > > > >>>>> pass on this one. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> ...Bill! > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> yes so get cracking ...let's have the koan!!!!!!!!!! merle > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ÃÂ > > > > >>>>>> Merle and Mike, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Okay, this story is labeled a 'parable' which as I said is not a > > > > >>>>>> koan - although could serve as the basis for a koan. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ...Bill! > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Merle,<br/><br/>With pleasure!<br/><br/>18. A > > > > >>>>>>> Parable<br/><br/>Buddha told a parable in sutra:<br/><br/>A man > > > > >>>>>>> traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the > > > > >>>>>>> tiger after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the > > > > >>>>>>> root of a wild vine and swung himself down over the edge. The > > > > >>>>>>> tiger sniffed at him from above. Trembling, the man looked down > > > > >>>>>>> to where, far below, another tiger was waiting to eat him. Only > > > > >>>>>>> the vine sustained him.<br/><br/>Two mice, one white and one > > > > >>>>>>> black, little by little started to gnaw away the vine. The man > > > > >>>>>>> saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one > > > > >>>>>>> hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it > > > > >>>>>>> tasted!<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
