JMJM, Thanks for your reply.
When you joined this group you said you asked "Is there spirituality in Zen?". I hope at that time I responded that if there is spirituality in Buddhism there is that same spirituality in Zen Buddhism. There is however no spirituality in the zen I practice which, as I'm sure you know by now, is not a sect or in any way dependent upon Buddhism. One feature of Ch'an I do like is that it has practices that specifically targets the body and the health of the practitioner. Zen as far as I've seen it practiced does not, at least does not directly. Certainly the peace of mind zen bestows is beneficial to your health, and in Zen Buddhism the work ethic and vegetarian diet probably helps a lot too. But, as I said, these are all secondary effects. I do think Zen/zen does deal with all the other things you mentioned below like 'karma' although I know you wouldn't agree. Thanks again for your explanations...Bill! --- In [email protected], 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Thank you for asking.. Below are my comments for your reference.. I > have read this article awhile back.. > > Chan by definition is One and ALL. Meaning it is the absolute dharma > applicable to ALL things - body, mind and spirit. As well as it can > answer every question written in the sutra and bible. In other words, > with a simplest practice, it can rejuvenate our body, clear our mind and > let our spirit shine by eliminating all karma. And at the end of it all, > our spirit will stop reincarnating. We will be in heaven. > > Most of the Chan teachings by an unenlightened master, stops at the mind > level, because they don't have the spiritual power to help people to > eliminate their karma. This article ends at the mind level. For most > of the people, if one can achieve ego-less, it would already deserve > celebration, because the world will be a better place. This is what we > call "Chan Living", or everyday Chan. Living by fulfilling each moment. > But you still reincarnate. > > Most of the Chan teachings does not cover the spiritual practice, > because it deals with lights, chi and abstract phenomena. Yet, once you > experience consistent phenomena with lights and chi, you will know they > are the actual causes of everything. The world is really run by > energy. In other worlds, the spiritual practice is the practice > dictating our body and mind. Fundamental Chan practice is a spiritual > practice. If you recall, seven or eight years ago, when I first join > the forum, I asked, "is there spirituality in Zen?" > > BTW, how do we know whether a person is enlightened or not? The proof > is in his dead body. If he dies at his preferred time without sickness, > and there are relics after he was cremated, then he is enlightened. > > My Shifu said, "the parents of all my disciple, even though they do not > practice, they still will have relics when they die." I have witnessed > that every time. > > In short, I like to suggest to the forum, instead of using your mind to > judge whether you wanted to try our way of meditation or not, just try > it diligently for six months, then you shall experience. There is > nothing worth any of us to hang on too, or to hold them with our life. > Chan is taught beyond words and through transmission. > > Chan is about direct experience of ALL things. Using our mind to filter > or discriminate only narrows our scope resulting in practice with our > mind and not our spirit. Let our spirit soar and be free. > > Thank you for the opportunity to share, > jm > > > > On 5/22/2013 1:19 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Mike and JMJM, > > > > Mike, Thanks for this link. I pulled up the article will wait to read > > it until JMJM says he thinks it's worthwhile doing so. I don't want to > > have 3 or 4 versions of Ch'an rolling around in my head. The mix we > > get here on the Zen Forum about zen is confusion enough, and I trust > > JMJM's insight and knowledge on Ch'an. > > > > JMJM, If you would please read the article cited below and tell me > > what you think of it. It's looks pretty thorough. It's by Ch'an Master > > Sheng-yen (1977) if that helps you make that determination without > > reading it. > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Joe,<br/><br/>http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/C%20-%20Zen/Modern%20Teachers/Sheng%20Yen/What%20is%20Ch%27an/What%20is%20Ch%27an%20-%20Master%20Sheng-yen.htm<br/><br/>Found > > > > this online and thought you might be interested. It was originally > > written as a pamphlet to be handed out, but was then lost. Someone > > found one of these old pamphlets and thought it was so good it should > > be shared. Even if you've read it before.. > > Enjoy!<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
