bill.. what a beautiful poem hui neng has crafted.. i see the site also has information..that i have investigated..t he bottom line to zen.. is that enlightenment that cannot be grasped with any "tools" please correct me if i am incorrect has edgar been aware that is the way of zen? maybe his harping of the intellect and rational thought might just be able to rest and he finally will be free of all that huffing and puffing and mind bending acrobatics merle Merle,
I don't think you can 'over polish' in the way I meant to use it. I meant it to mean wipe away all traces of self and attachment. That is zen practice. When that's been fully achieved there is nothing left to which attachments can anchor and nothing left to polish. I assume that's 'full enlightenment'. This is similar to the well known zen story about Hui Neng, the 6th Patriarch "One day the Fifth Patriarch told his monks to express their wisdom in a poem. Whoever had true realization of his original nature (Buddha Nature) would be ordained the Sixth Patriarch. The head monk, Shen Hsiu, was the most learned, and wrote the following: The body is the wisdom-tree, The mind is a bright mirror in a stand; Take care to wipe it all the time, And allow no dust to cling. The poem was praised, but The Fifth Patriarch knew that Shen Hsiu had not yet found his original nature, on the other hand, Hui Neng couldn't even write, so someone had to write down his poem, which read: Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists, Nor the stand of a mirror bright. Since all is empty from the beginning, Where can the dust alight? The Fifth Patriarch pretended that he wasn't impressed with this poem either, but in the middle of the night he summoned Hui Neng. The Fifth Patriarch gave him the insignia of his office, the Patriarch's robe and bowl (source). Hui Neng was told to leave for the South and to hide his enlightenment and understanding until the proper time arrives for him to propagate the Dharma." - Source: http://sped2work.tripod.com/huineng.html ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill... thank you for your good advice > > can one "over polish".? > > i spy  with my little eye.... over polishing may lead to certain arrogance .. > > merle > > > >  > Merle, > > I agree with Mike. Additionally a teacher can make first guide you to a > realization and sure you're not deceiving yourself along the way. I don't > know how many times I thought I had the 'answer' to Mu and went into the > dokusan room (private interview with the teacher) full of confidence only to > be unceremoniously rung out (the teacher rings a little bell notifying you > that the dokusan is over). > > But like Mike says when I finally 'got it' there was really no need for > validation, just a profound feeling of gratitude and need to thank my > teacher for sticking with me and guiding me while I floundered around. > > And then there of course is the start of the polishing, the real start of > your zen practice. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > Merle,<br/><br/>You'll know because you won't have to ask anyone if you've > > awakened. Of course, a teacher can gauge the depth of awakening and what > > will help you deepen it. But just like you don't need someone to tell you > > if that McDonalds coffee is hot - with the same certainty you'll know your > > perception of the world has changed.<br/><br/>Just as reality is > > experienced moment to moment, so is enlightenment. Our conditioning and > > beliefs etc. go deep and even though our initial awakening might have blown > > much of the dust from our eyes, some of that conditioning still remains. > > It's very much a work in progress! The biggest mistake to be made would be > > to believe that the first glimpse of our true nature is *it* and no further > > practice is necessary (you can see here that some people still cling to > > their cherished beliefs of what enlightenment is). Before awakening > > 'letting go' is a struggle. After awakening you simply realise there is > > nothing to let go > > of.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >
