Mike, Good come back, even though not true... :-)
Edgar On May 23, 2013, at 10:49 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Edgar, > > I just think you just have a bad case of yam leaf envy. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net>; > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] keeping the mind in balance > Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 12:53:16 PM > > > Mike, > > > It's true you don't have to ask anyone if you are enlightened - if you really > are. > > However there are plenty of people who think they are enlightened because > somebody gave them a yam leaf diploma when they aren't. > > That being said everyone is already enlightened. It's just that a lot of > people don't realize they are enlightened. > > Enlightenment is simply a matter of realizing you are already enlightened and > always have been. But you really have to understand what that really means.... > > Edgar > > > > On May 23, 2013, at 12:22 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > >> >> Merle, >> >> You'll know because you won't have to ask anyone if you've awakened. Of >> course, a teacher can gauge the depth of awakening and what will help you >> deepen it. But just like you don't need someone to tell you if that >> McDonalds coffee is hot - with the same certainty you'll know your >> perception of the world has changed. >> >> Just as reality is experienced moment to moment, so is enlightenment. Our >> conditioning and beliefs etc. go deep and even though our initial awakening >> might have blown much of the dust from our eyes, some of that conditioning >> still remains. It's very much a work in progress! The biggest mistake to be >> made would be to believe that the first glimpse of our true nature is *it* >> and no further practice is necessary (you can see here that some people >> still cling to their cherished beliefs of what enlightenment is). Before >> awakening 'letting go' is a struggle. After awakening you simply realise >> there is nothing to let go of. >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com>; >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>; >> Subject: [Zen] keeping the mind in balance >> Sent: Thu, May 23, 2013 3:26:06 AM >> >> >> >> >> mike >> i get your drift.. >> however how does one know when one is awakened?... >> and can one be awakened permanently or does one fall back to "sleep" so to >> speak..and loose the drift... >> merle >> >> >> Merle, >> >> There have no doubt been many who have wiped the dust from their eyes since, >> and before, the historical Buddha. The important thing is that just like >> Sidharta Guatama, you too can awaken in this very lifetime; this very >> moment. >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com>; >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Id, ego and super-ego - keeping the mind in balance >> Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 8:21:04 AM >> >> >> >> mike..i see..thank you... can you point to me a person in history apart >> from buddha who has reached the pinnacle of enlightenment?..merle >> >> Merle, >> >> The only thing the Freudian concept of 'ego' shares with the Buddhist >> concept of the same is the name. They're quite different concepts. Check >> this out from www.luminousbuddha.com: >> >> "The Latin term ego was first used in a translation of Freud’s work to refer >> to his idea of the “I” or the reality principle within the dynamic forces of >> the psyche. He suggests the functions of the “I” include reasoning, a sense >> of self-capacity and the mediator between the polarized demands of >> instinctual drives and societal expectations. While he considered the “I” a >> mechanism of the self, he did not use the term ego. Nevertheless the word >> ego entered the mainstream in professional conversations of the analytic >> understanding of the human being as it began with Freud’s thought. >> >> As psychology became popularized the word ego entered the common vernacular >> to describe attitudes and behaviors considered selfish or inflated. The >> slang use of ego is generally a derogatory term for behaviors considered out >> of the range of social acceptance. Slang borrows from the inflated side of >> the psychodynamic description of the unhealthy manifestations of ego yet >> lacks a deeper understanding of its causes. >> >> In the 1970’s Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, a Tibetan lama, began utilizing the >> term ego to describe a neurotic process based on the ignorance of our actual >> situation (Trungpa, 1978) resulting in a solidified sense of self that is >> separate and self-referential and as such is the cause of suffering. He saw >> the projections of the ego as an incorrect understanding of the >> interdependent nature of reality and the primary obstruction to clear seeing >> and compassion. He borrowed aspects of the term from both psychology and >> modern vernacular usage. >> >> Buddhists around the world have embraced this usage of the term ego and use >> it regularly to describe the common illusion of a static separate self that >> emphasizes it’s self-importance in relation to the world. This Buddhist >> definition can now be understood as a unique understanding of the word ego >> as well. The field of transpersonal psychology has borrowed from the >> Buddhist usage of the term ego in the psychological and spiritual mapping of >> human development. >> >> The confusion that has arisen from the different usages of the term ego is >> significant to those in the field of psychology as well as Buddhist >> practitioners who have an incomplete understanding of the word in its >> several contexts. The general public would also benefit from a further >> understanding of the factors relating to the formation of an aggrandized >> sense of self to which the slang usage of ego refers." >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com>; >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Id, ego and super-ego - keeping the mind in balance >> Sent: Wed, May 22, 2013 12:33:42 AM >> >> >> >> joe... >> >> no i do not disagree however you are sweeping his work away with a very >> large brush.. >> >> and labelling him judging him to be unfit.. >> >> can you point to me where freud deviates from the "self "of buddhadharma >> >> merle >> >> >> Merle, >> >> Huh? No, Dr. Freud first used the word "ego"; I think he scrounged it from >> the Latin, to fill in for something in his model of the small mind as he >> studied neurotic Jewish ladies in his neighborhood who came to him for what >> he called "analysis". >> >> Freud had it right for himself and his theories; but the buck stops THERE. >> >> It's of no value in Buddhadharma. "Self" has always been the operative word, >> there. So far so good. Do you disagree somehow? >> >> --Joe >> >> > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> > >> > joe.. >> > >> > can you direct me to some relevant web info on this... >> > so are you saying that dr. freud got it all wrong? >> > are we not all buddhas and demons and mixtures of both? >> > so why are you suggesting dr. Freud is a demon and a fraud? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
