I thought so, but don't really know Indonesian names that well. Anyway you sound Western educated. Is that so?
My curiosity is because I might be available... :-) Edgar On May 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Hahaha, can't you tell, from my name? I'm a woman. > > Mind sharing what triggered your curiosity? > > Siska > > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:53:32 -0400 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > > OK, now I'm intrigued. Pardon me for asking but are you a woman or a man? > > > Edgar > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 9:08 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> I live in Jakarta. >> >> Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in Indonesia :) >> >> Siska >> >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >> Sender: [email protected] >> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400 >> To: <[email protected]> >> ReplyTo: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >> >> >> Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now? >> >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Edgar, >>> >>> Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian. >>> >>> Siska >>> >>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >>> Sender: [email protected] >>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>> >>> >>> Siska, >>> >>> >>> What's your native language? >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Bill, >>>> >>>> I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot relate to >>>> poetry other than those in my mother language. And I think poetry are best >>>> left un-translated. >>>> >>>> I'm better with koans.... >>>> >>>> Siska >>>> >>>> From: "Bill!" <[email protected]> >>>> Sender: [email protected] >>>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000 >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> ReplyTo: [email protected] >>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Siska, >>>> >>>> Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English, us >>>> that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence structure >>>> requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's actions or >>>> relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's no way to >>>> adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic) experience in >>>> English. >>>> >>>> The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called >>>> 'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their holistic >>>> experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are not only >>>> completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much as possible >>>> without the use of a subject. >>>> >>>> An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho: >>>> >>>> Japanese >>>> Furu ike ya >>>> kawazu tobikomu >>>> mizu no oto >>>> >>>> Direct English Translation >>>> Old pond >>>> frog jumped in >>>> sound of water >>>> >>>> Reasonable English Translation (IMO) >>>> The old pond >>>> A frog jumped in, >>>> Kerplunk! >>>> >>>> A Bad English Translation (IMO) >>>> A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . . >>>> Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till >>>> Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps. >>>> >>>> You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem at >>>> http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi Bill, >>>> > >>>> > > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to >>>> > > mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. >>>> > >>>> > Ah I see... >>>> > >>>> > I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as you >>>> > said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use.... >>>> > >>>> > Siska >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@... >>>> > Sender: [email protected] >>>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07 >>>> > To: [email protected] >>>> > Reply-To: [email protected] >>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>> > >>>> > Siska, >>>> > >>>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to mean >>>> > 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times when someone >>>> > has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as saying, "I have >>>> > met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - meaning he has >>>> > experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or some other zen >>>> > master) has described. >>>> > >>>> > The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience is >>>> > that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why many >>>> > ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying to >>>> > rationally explain what they experienced. >>>> > >>>> > ...Bill! >>>> > >>>> > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Hi again Bill, >>>> > > >>>> > > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences you >>>> > > just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's term 'face >>>> > > to face with the real Buddha'? >>>> > > >>>> > > Siska >>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>> > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ >>>> > > Sender: [email protected] >>>> > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44 >>>> > > To: [email protected] >>>> > > Reply-To: [email protected] >>>> > > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's right. >>>> > > ..Bill! >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
