Suresh, et al... I agree with Joe here. In fact zen koans are used to exhaust logic and dialectic. When you try to use logic or dialectic to 'solve' a koan you will continually fail and eventually will just give up out of frustration or boredom - much the way you can relax your mind by gazing into a fire (chaotic image) or hearing a repetitious sound (ticking of a clock). Your mind may first try to 'make sense' (create a perception) out of the changing images of the flames or the constant ticking of the clock, but eventually will just 'tune them out'.
The same happens with to your intellect during a koan. It eventually just shuts down - and what then is left? Buddha Nature! ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Suresh, > > Well, "obsessed" is too strong -- and wrong -- a word. > > On a Zen forum, I don't mind speaking about Zen, however. Your habit seems > to speak about all else but Zen. > > Other things enter here from time to time, of course, which relate to our > topic. > > But in general, I enjoy keeping on-topic, and making the forum a more > concentrated place upon the central topic that it is dedicated to. Here, > such concentration is not "obsession": but it is "keeping on topic", and > following the Terms of Service of the board. > > You say you know Naimy: but he passed away 25 years ago. Did you know him > personally, earlier? > > I do not agree that argument can lead to what you call pure consciousness. > Neither does it have to do with the "No Mind" of Zen awakening. Argument and > dialectic can only show the futility of using logic and thought to realize > Buddha Mind. Once a person is satisfied -- and exhausted -- that cogitation > is futile, he/she can then get down to actual practice, instead, preferably > with a Zen teacher and a group, and see them regularly, and practice Zazen > regularly. That is, if your interest is in fact really in Zen. > > --Joe > > > "Suresh" <varamtha@> wrote: > > > > Dear Joe, > > > > Of course the discussion was with other forum member. I know the author of > > The Book of Mirdad. > > > > I have posted it since it is also related to Buddha. Since that member > > thought Buddha also copied from vedas, I have to argue with him. > > > > Like you are so much obsessed with zen and zen only, the other member is > > obsessed with Hindu scriptures such as vedas. He thinks only vedas are > > supreme and oldest and all other have copied and told in their own way. > > > > I don't like obsession. I am free from all theories and all ism. > > > > I also wanted to indicate my way of argument, which when followed carefully > > arrive at pure consciousness or No self in zen terms. > > > > I only post what is related to zen, meditation, no self, the pure > > consciouness. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
