Ok, but would you agree that Bill's descrion of classical koan training is accurate - the koan is used to silence the generation of thoughts and words?
Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 8, 2013 6:47 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Chris, > > I've been dealing with the quantum koan all my life. > > Reality is the ultimate koan... Solve that one and you've got it! > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 8, 2013, at 9:43 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > > > I didn't think you had done Koan training, Edgar? > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Jun 8, 2013 4:40 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> Bill, >> >> O boy, here we go again.... >> >> Maybe YOUR intellect shuts down but my intellect IS Buddha Nature.... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Bill! wrote: >> >> >> >> Suresh, et al... >> >> I agree with Joe here. In fact zen koans are used to exhaust logic and >> dialectic. When you try to use logic or dialectic to 'solve' a koan you >> will continually fail and eventually will just give up out of frustration >> or boredom - much the way you can relax your mind by gazing into a fire >> (chaotic image) or hearing a repetitious sound (ticking of a clock). Your >> mind may first try to 'make sense' (create a perception) out of the >> changing images of the flames or the constant ticking of the clock, but >> eventually will just 'tune them out'. >> >> The same happens with to your intellect during a koan. It eventually just >> shuts down - and what then is left? Buddha Nature! >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: >> > >> > Suresh, >> > >> > Well, "obsessed" is too strong -- and wrong -- a word. >> > >> > On a Zen forum, I don't mind speaking about Zen, however. Your habit >> seems to speak about all else but Zen. >> > >> > Other things enter here from time to time, of course, which relate to >> our topic. >> > >> > But in general, I enjoy keeping on-topic, and making the forum a more >> concentrated place upon the central topic that it is dedicated to. Here, >> such concentration is not "obsession": but it is "keeping on topic", and >> following the Terms of Service of the board. >> > >> > You say you know Naimy: but he passed away 25 years ago. Did you know >> him personally, earlier? >> > >> > I do not agree that argument can lead to what you call pure >> consciousness. Neither does it have to do with the "No Mind" of Zen >> awakening. Argument and dialectic can only show the futility of using logic >> and thought to realize Buddha Mind. Once a person is satisfied -- and >> exhausted -- that cogitation is futile, he/she can then get down to actual >> practice, instead, preferably with a Zen teacher and a group, and see them >> regularly, and practice Zazen regularly. That is, if your interest is in >> fact really in Zen. >> > >> > --Joe >> > >> > > "Suresh" <varamtha@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Dear Joe, >> > > >> > > Of course the discussion was with other forum member. I know the >> author of The Book of Mirdad. >> > > >> > > I have posted it since it is also related to Buddha. Since that >> member thought Buddha also copied from vedas, I have to argue with him. >> > > >> > > Like you are so much obsessed with zen and zen only, the other member >> is obsessed with Hindu scriptures such as vedas. He thinks only vedas are >> supreme and oldest and all other have copied and told in their own way. >> > > >> > > I don't like obsession. I am free from all theories and all ism. >> > > >> > > I also wanted to indicate my way of argument, which when followed >> carefully arrive at pure consciousness or No self in zen terms. >> > > >> > > I only post what is related to zen, meditation, no self, the pure >> consciouness. >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
