I didn't think you had done Koan training, Edgar? Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 8, 2013 4:40 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Bill, > > O boy, here we go again.... > > Maybe YOUR intellect shuts down but my intellect IS Buddha Nature.... > > Edgar > > > > > > On Jun 7, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Suresh, et al... > > I agree with Joe here. In fact zen koans are used to exhaust logic and > dialectic. When you try to use logic or dialectic to 'solve' a koan you > will continually fail and eventually will just give up out of frustration > or boredom - much the way you can relax your mind by gazing into a fire > (chaotic image) or hearing a repetitious sound (ticking of a clock). Your > mind may first try to 'make sense' (create a perception) out of the > changing images of the flames or the constant ticking of the clock, but > eventually will just 'tune them out'. > > The same happens with to your intellect during a koan. It eventually just > shuts down - and what then is left? Buddha Nature! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > > > Suresh, > > > > Well, "obsessed" is too strong -- and wrong -- a word. > > > > On a Zen forum, I don't mind speaking about Zen, however. Your habit > seems to speak about all else but Zen. > > > > Other things enter here from time to time, of course, which relate to > our topic. > > > > But in general, I enjoy keeping on-topic, and making the forum a more > concentrated place upon the central topic that it is dedicated to. Here, > such concentration is not "obsession": but it is "keeping on topic", and > following the Terms of Service of the board. > > > > You say you know Naimy: but he passed away 25 years ago. Did you know > him personally, earlier? > > > > I do not agree that argument can lead to what you call pure > consciousness. Neither does it have to do with the "No Mind" of Zen > awakening. Argument and dialectic can only show the futility of using logic > and thought to realize Buddha Mind. Once a person is satisfied -- and > exhausted -- that cogitation is futile, he/she can then get down to actual > practice, instead, preferably with a Zen teacher and a group, and see them > regularly, and practice Zazen regularly. That is, if your interest is in > fact really in Zen. > > > > --Joe > > > > > "Suresh" <varamtha@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Joe, > > > > > > Of course the discussion was with other forum member. I know the > author of The Book of Mirdad. > > > > > > I have posted it since it is also related to Buddha. Since that member > thought Buddha also copied from vedas, I have to argue with him. > > > > > > Like you are so much obsessed with zen and zen only, the other member > is obsessed with Hindu scriptures such as vedas. He thinks only vedas are > supreme and oldest and all other have copied and told in their own way. > > > > > > I don't like obsession. I am free from all theories and all ism. > > > > > > I also wanted to indicate my way of argument, which when followed > carefully arrive at pure consciousness or No self in zen terms. > > > > > > I only post what is related to zen, meditation, no self, the pure > consciouness. > > > > > > > >
