Chris, Mind moves mind.
Yours truely, Peebles You: "Over and over, I have heard some music without really paying attention, and tuen one time have really listened to it, and been deeply moved." ------------------------------ On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 12:31 PM EDT Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >Are you kidding? Your intellect is where your sense of beauty come from? >That could not be further away from my experience. Over and over, I have >heard some music without really paying attention, and tuen one time have >really listened to it, and been deeply moved. Really also I find >listening/seeing/tasting/touching/smelling/introspecting in general rewards >attentive attending ;) with a suuden pleasurable deepening appreciation for >how things are, for the specific thing at hand a routine occurance. > >For beauty, there is a saying, when nothing is special, then everything >can be special. But our brain will be responding to beauty in any case. >Spontaneously. Not because of intellectual something, but our full >response to life clearly seen. > >Thanks, >--Chris >301-270-6524 > On Jul 5, 2013 2:35 AM, "Bill!" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Merle, >> >> My intellect judged them to be beautiful. That judgement was probably >> something I learned to mimic from hearing other people describe things as >> beautiful. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >  >> >  bill..how do you know they were beautiful? clarification please..merle >> > >> > I have indeed perceived many beautiful sunsets. >> > >> > But have also experienced Just THIS! >> > >> > ...Bill! >> > >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >  >> > >  bill..is that so?...is that what you have realised or have been >> told to believe think and feel?.. have you never seen a beautiful sunset >> ?...merle >> > > >> > > >> > >  >> > > Merle, >> > > >> > > Math is judged to be beautiful because it is logical. Yes. >> > > >> > > Logic is judged to be beautiful because it deceives us into thinking >> we understand the truth. >> > > >> > > Truth is not beautiful or not-beautiful. Truth just is. >> > > >> > > All judgments come from your delusive intellect and self. If you are >> looking for 'realization' [Buddha Nature?] then you'll have to let go your >> attachments to such things as self, intellect, truth and beauty. >> > > >> > > ...Bill! >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > mathematics is beautiful because it is logical >> > > > >> > > >  logic is beautiful because it is so pointing to the truth >> > > > >> > > > truth is so beautiful because it points and parts the way for >> realisation to take place .. >> > > > >> > > > merle >> > > > >> > > >  >> > > > Edgar, >> > > > >> > > > Reality is not bound by logic. I'd buy your statement if you said >> 'math words because it accurately models our logically-based perception of >> reality', but I suppose that wouldn't work for you. >> > > > >> > > > ...Bill! >> > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Bill, >> > > > > >> > > > > No, no, no. Human math works because it DOES accurately model the >> actual logic of reality. >> > > > > >> > > > > Edgar >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Bill! wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Chris, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Mathematics doesn't reveal reality. Mathematics only mirrors the >> human intellect. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ...Bill! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> >> wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The thing I like about math as a source of analogies for zen >> is that it >> > > > > > > shows how two different things csn br exactly the same. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Linear equations over reals are lines. Lines are linear >> equations. >> > > > > > > Numbers, points, the constituents drop away as the eternal >> unity is seen. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > > > --Chris >> > > > > > > 301-270-6524 >> > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013 8:12 AM, <pandabananasock@> wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Bill!: >> > > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were >> looking for an >> > > > > > > > impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it >> leads you back >> > > > > > > > to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the >> model, then >> > > > > > > > we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we >> realize that both >> > > > > > > > are models of each other and the same, and experience >> encompasses all -- no >> > > > > > > > need for anything else. Rivers and mountains become rivers >> and mountains >> > > > > > > > again! >> > > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of >> Cause-and-Effect and >> > > > > > > > Karma >> > > > > > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three >> > > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is >> > > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a >> > > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of >> > > > > > > > the act itself. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ...Bill! >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], >> > > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, >> > > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes >> > > > > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different >> > > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit >> > > > > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. >> > > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the >> > > > > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something >> > > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic >> > > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" >> > > > > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ >> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >...Bill! >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have >> > > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups >> > > > > > > > Links >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [email protected] >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have >> read or are >> > > > > > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are >> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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